Let's Get Collective | Emma Bates, Diem

[00:00] If this podcast is a great place to start, if you're curious about Boys Club, we also have a newsletter, link in bio. We do events. I feel like we should start over. Okay. [00:14] hello i'm natasha hoskins i'm dina burke and this is boys club wait is it just boys club it's just boys club the boys club podcast no no [00:27] Just boys club. [00:28] Okay, Natasha. No, no. What's Voice Club Dina? [00:35] Um, [00:36] Someone wrote us and they were like, you got to keep this bid in. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I can't remember who it was. I can't remember where that came through. But someone was like, yeah, you need to... [00:45] we [00:46] I really, she was like, I really enjoy it. So this is for her only, whoever, whoever that woman is. This is the only reason we're still doing it. Um, [00:54] So, [00:56] Boys Club is a community of people who are interested in the intersection of culture and technology. [01:04] And our... [01:05] building things together and hang out together online and in person. Great. That's perfect. Um, we have this podcast, we have an amazing newsletter. You can subscribe in the show notes. Highly, highly, highly recommend. Um, we do events. We do, we didn't talk, we didn't talk about our Basel event. [01:26] Oh my God, we didn't. We had a party in Basel. And my main takeaway, two main takeaways.

[01:33] One is that [01:35] the only people I ever want to hang out with are boys club people. Like anytime, [01:39] I meet somebody who's from Boys Club. They are... [01:42] The most interesting... [01:44] most fun, most well-dressed person in the room every time. And I'm just like, I don't know how this has happened, but like anytime I'm at a party that's like co-hosted with a group of other people, [01:54] The rest of people seem fine. But the people who I like, wow, I love that person is in Boys Club. Am I wrong? Totally. No, it's totally true. Totally true. That totally checks out. [02:04] It was really fun. And my second main takeaway is that I'm, like, fully obsessed with Mija. Totally. It's, like, borderline I need to, like, cool it because it's, like, not cool how much I'm into it. But she's an unbelievable DJ. Like, absolutely. [02:19] She's so talented. She's so talented. So, um, like forever and always resident DJ, hopefully will be me. I hope she had a great time. Um, but big shout out there. It was a great time. [02:31] And thanks to the team who helped put it together because it was really fun. [02:37] We did some other stuff while we were there too and – [02:40] It was, it was a wild, it was a wild few days. Maybe next feeling checking, we can talk about the, um, private dinner that you went to and your feelings. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We should do that. We should unpack that. Um, I'll just keep on theme that anything I'm invited to is then talked about on the podcast. Um, okay. So we have a really fun, Oh, one last thing about if you're wanting to get involved with the boys club, you can also apply to our discord. It's on our website, which, uh, is insane, but will be updated soon. Um,

[03:09] Just click join the chat. [03:11] Yeah, and also mention that you listen to us on the podcast because that helps us. There's a whole application prioritization that goes on. [03:19] with folks in the DAO. So [03:22] Mention that you listen and... [03:24] That will help expedite. Put you to the top of the list. Yeah. Okay. [03:29] We had a great podcast. We had Emma Bates from DM on. [03:33] talking about the future of social, which was really interesting. Yeah. And the work that she's doing there. Oh, and we debuted... [03:41] a new format for the interview called Founders Feelings. [03:46] So we're trying something new where we're bringing on founders, we're talking to them, we're digging into their work and their feelings around their work. So give that a listen. And then what else did we talk about? We had a DAO check-in about a little preview of material that will be shared in our town hall later this month about... [04:06] some evolved thinking on the roadmap and entity structure for... [04:11] the various... [04:12] Boys Club projects. So... [04:16] It will be interesting to a certain type of person. I was interested in things like that. Wow, selling it. Selling it. Well, as I said it a lot, I was like, it is. I know. When you said entity structure, I was like, ooh, wow, buzzkill. Yeah, well, I mean, but that's like kind of what it is. Cold shower on the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's true. It's the work we've been doing. And honestly, it's been like eight months in the making. So I'm feeling really good to be on the other end of it. Yeah. [04:37] Okay, shout out to Moonpei.

[04:40] They've been so good to us. [04:41] They've been so good to us. Moonpei is the ultimate saddie. [04:45] Moonpay makes it fast and easy to buy crypto. You can do it with your credit card. You can do it with your debit card. [04:54] Um, Apple pay, Apple pay, Apple pay. Um, go check it out. It's great. Moonpay.com. [05:07] Okay, so we're doing a new segment this week called Founder Feelings. [05:12] Emma, you're our first founder that we're doing this with, so we're excited to have you. Feel so special. Buckle up. [05:19] So Emma Bates is our guest today. She's the CEO and co-founder of Diem, a new social search engine for women and non-binary folks. So think Reddit, but without all the weird trolls and horrible people. Previously, she was the head of Global Marketing in a Way. Emma's very much a community builder and is an excellent marketer. Emma, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. [05:42] So, okay, Diem. [05:44] Tell us what you're doing. What is it? Why does it exist? Tell us the story. [05:50] Yeah, I mean, why does it exist? The idea came after I had to take the morning after pill for the first time. And as I'd never taken it before, I ended up in a classic internet spiral and was just like, why can't I find anyone's stories? I've had bad experiences with birth control. I know that there are other people out there that have had that same experience. Like, why can't I find what they're saying, what their side effects were?

[06:14] and basically during this sort of [06:17] very frantic search, recognised upon reflection that there is a big [06:22] space at the intersection of search products and social products. Social products being traditionally terrible to search. You can't find anything beyond the moment it's posted. And then search products often don't surface community conversations or community results. And you have to add all manner of different queries to potentially come across like one relevant Reddit thread or a tweet or I don't know, whatever else you're looking for. [06:52] at least for our go-to-market demographic, which is targeting women and non-binary people, they search very socially. Like think about how often you ask your friends for advice or recommendations. You're just trying to [07:05] seek general reviews on different experiences. And so that's how you can think about DM. It's really where you would go to ask questions of people beyond your friendship group with the guise of [07:15] or with the goal rather of [07:18] discovering answers beyond those that you traditionally have access to. [07:22] Cool. I love it. So one question I have for you, obviously at Boys Club, we're very much [07:28] designing for and centering women and non-binary folks. Um, [07:34] But we sort of cringe at the woman thing. Like, it's such a delicate balance. [07:39] So I'm curious. But then at the same time, like, I don't know, we threw a party at Art Basel and...

[07:45] there were a bunch of dudes there and I was just like, I don't know. I just want my people. And some of them are great, you know, whatever, but it's a really delicate balance. And so I, [07:56] I'm curious how you're navigating that without getting like super cringe all the time, you know? Yeah, I feel you... [08:02] I feel you on that. The one, my biggest thing, I really hate [08:07] Well, I mean, like, every piece of marketing in some way, shape, or form is sort of, like, inadequacy-based. But I feel like things that target women or design to women are just, like, pink and fluffy and, like... [08:18] you need help, you need to heal, you need all of these different things. And like, yes, we may well, we may well need to heal, we may well need various sort of levels of support as a byproduct of sort of existing in maybe environments that weren't initially designed for us. But I just think I'm so over that narrative. I think that it takes away from how sort of genius women are in so many different ways. And it, um, [08:42] doesn't really acknowledge that. And so for us, a big thing that we do in our messaging is we say, we're building a social search engine inspired by the way women have exchanged information for centuries. And so the big thing being like inspired by, and so we think more about from the technology perspective, we're, [09:01] What are the actual actions that you do, say, if you are a woman, to try and find information? Why don't we build a more intuitive approach? [09:09] piece of technology that enables you to do that easier. And so for us, it's more like recognizing that there are opportunities in sort of

[09:18] perhaps more feminine behaviour that haven't been acknowledged in building technology and how could we do that a little bit differently for the betterment ultimately for everyone we believe that [09:28] Um, [09:29] Women as a byproduct of information being default male for the whole world, the existence of the society, existence of time, means that we've become very scrappy and very resourceful and very good at finding what we need to try and piece everything together. Yeah. [09:46] We think that if we can recognise that and not only make it easier to start with, but also recognise the ways that we have experienced [09:52] creatively come up with these solutions, we can build better things for everyone. [09:57] Cool. So what I'm hearing from you in what you just said is like, okay, there's sort of the positioning, which is like, let's not lean too heavily into things, into narratives that have been like [10:08] toxic and problematic in the past. And I think that that's something really resonates with us big time as well. And then there's the content itself, which, you know, we've, we've spent some time in the app and there's clearly like a, um, [10:20] It centers a certain type of – yeah, there's a lens. It centers a certain type of voice. And then what I'm hearing from you also is that there's, like, some product level decisions that were made around, like, how we – [10:32] how women typically search for things. Like, can you speak a little bit more about how that is represented in, in the product itself? Yeah. [10:40] Yeah, so the way we think about it is a few ways. One is, first of all, what don't we build? What are we not going to build? And a big thing that's different from other social experiences or other social platforms is the way that direct messaging has come to life.

[11:10] susceptible to abuse and various other sort of harassment and things that happen in direct messages are allowed to happen in them and I sort of like I liken direct messaging to sort of being catcalled a lot of the time you're like I don't want this attention I've put all my barriers up around me to like try and not have this attention and yet I'm still getting it and somehow it's still getting through. [11:31] And so for us, that was a very intentional decision. We do not have direct messaging. [11:37] If we explore, we know that there's various benefits from a community building perspective to have direct channels, but the way that we, if we do explore it in the future, the way we will explore it is very, very different from a different sort of perspective. [11:50] And then I think for us, right now, the products in beta, the thing that you do is you start a DM, which is a public search query, and you contribute. And so the ways that you contribute were voted on by the community. And they were like, we want to have recommendations. We want to be able to share a story, so a more personal experience. We want to be able to leave a voice note. [12:13] So really mimicking their private group chats and sort of hoping to capture some of that frenetic energy that you're most familiar with. So, yeah, those are sort of, I guess, like two points that we can dive into from there. [12:25] I mean, the voice note, that's going to be a big unlock for me. Big voice note energy in the voice club world. Um, well, great. I mean, uh, one of the things that we sort of wanted to dig into with you is, um, [12:39] What sort of your exposure to Web3 community building in that world? Obviously, that's the world we're in. And I'm curious what your exposure has been and how it has or has not sort of informed the way that you're thinking about what's possible for DM and your community.

[12:56] Yeah, I find community building and Web3 really interesting because it starts to, it sort of pushed to the forefront what people have known about. [13:06] for a long time if you have built communities and those are sort of more around um like the power of distributed moderation um the power of like encouraging your community to build something together um there's a lot of things that is sort of and also rewarding your community for participating um and there's a lot of things that if you built communities on facebook groups or wherever like because i've had in [13:31] various iterations of my career before this, I'm [13:35] you know that those are really powerful attributes, specifically when it comes to building and retaining a community. And so my exposure to Web3 is like, [13:44] I've bought a lot of like I hold crypto, I hold Ethereum and Bitcoin. I have, I have your guys, um, NFT. I have like, I have like a bunch of, I kind of buy NFTs if I'm like, I just want to support this project. Um, [13:58] And so, yeah, I have like pretty, I guess, broad exposure to it. And it's definitely... [14:06] I guess validated some of my own hypotheses around how we'd want to build DM, but it hasn't necessarily like fully shaped them. [14:13] What's the vibe in the community? I saw like some, there's like a DM channel that's around technology and internet culture, which I loved. What do you feel like the vibe is in your, we're obviously in a community of people that's like very curious and self-selected for their curiosity around Web3, but I'm curious like in sort of the broader world, like what the sense of.

[14:36] is in your community around Web3 and like NFTs and like [14:39] Tell us what the normies are about. Yeah, what they're about. I think that as with anything, the biggest... [14:47] I mean, we tend to see macro trends play out within DMs, so people's interests, like ebb and flow rather, I cannot talk today, ebb and flow around various sort of news cycles or things like that. So you do start to see trends crop up as a result. [15:08] throughout whatever it's just happened in the last four months. But yeah, what has happened? Um, but, um, I think that for us, a lot of it comes or the observation that a lot boils down to is confidence. Um, and as with most things in which people feel as though they lack information, they sort of lack confidence to talk about it. So the thing that we've found really interesting is, um, [15:34] people feeling comfortable to ask the sort of questions that they might not put on Twitter because they're worried about being judged or they might not ask [15:42] a guy because the man might think that they're stupid. And so that's been interesting to us. I think it's more of a people are actively trying to learn in DM and see if other people have information. Yeah. [15:55] Yeah. [15:56] That's awesome. So you, before we started the recording, you're, you're talking about the future of social media. I'd love to, let's, I'd love to capture some of that here. Like, what do you, what's...

[16:07] You're clearly building at the edges with DM. What do you think is next and like directionally where we headed? [16:16] Yeah, I think there's... [16:18] something that we're really excited about um that we've been working on with a few other sort of emerging leaders in the space is that we believe that the future of social media is really about collective media and there's sort of a sense of shared principles about what that looks like and i think like one of them sort of going back to that communal building concept is like the idea that social platforms of the future will be built with the communities um and like let's sort of [16:48] their own. I think like another one being people are looking to connect more of a niches or questions or shared experiences and providing infrastructure for them to be able to do that. [16:59] I think like the ability to be able to explore and gain confidence in areas of yourself that you might not otherwise be able to is also a really interesting one to us. Um, [17:09] And then like the biggest one I think that [17:12] I'm most excited about is really like reimagining what your social circle looks like. Like what, what is it that, like who, like who could you become, who could you gain access to via these new platforms if we redesign what a social graph looks like. I think right now like TikTok's done a great or an interesting thing with that algorithm that [17:31] as we know, Instagram is rapidly trying to catch up on. But I believe there's a lot of power to opening your sort of

[17:39] social networks to people beyond your immediate friendship group and what that could mean from gaining more knowledge in our case or in other people's cases more creativity or more I don't know access to relevant communities to sort of validate their various experiences. [17:56] Yeah, I love – [17:59] I love the way that you put that because I think it really centers like learning, which I think is lost a lot in what social media has become of like. [18:08] And some of the stuff that I love most about... [18:11] when I'm on social media is like there is something that I'm cognizant of that I'm that is new to me. That's new information or expanding upon my knowledge base. And like that's actually when social media I feel like is really nourishing and really healthy and contributing to like my well-being as opposed to sort of like a vapid hole of like self-doubt and all of these things that we all know social media can become or just like. [18:35] just... [18:36] just dunking in on people or like just hate following people, which we all, we all do it and we all love it. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I think having, having a healthier relationship to what you consume online and it being centered around your own self knowledge and, and, uh, moving more towards wellbeing, I think is, is a really hopeful way of looking at what the future of. [19:02] um, yeah, the internet and social media is. Um, yeah. So we have a lot of, of builders in our community and a lot of entrepreneurs, um,

[19:11] And one of the things that we find a lot that we're sort of [19:16] constantly like [19:17] ambassadors for and like evangelists for is this idea of like builders are usually very much, um, described as like, when you hear someone say like, Oh, I'm a builder or we're looking for builders. Like they're really geared towards engineering and like technical talent. Um, and we have a deep belief that like marketers, community builders, brand people, um, those skills, those softer skills are incredibly important. And what's amazing about web three is like, they're really valued because, um, [19:45] much of crypto existed without that. And then they sort of saw the results of that and we're like, oh shit, we need to like bring in some people who can, you know, do all these other things that we can't. Um, and I'm curious what your experience has been as like a non-technical founder. Um, and yeah, the challenges and, and upsides of, um, of, [20:03] That being your skill set. [20:05] There's so many common beliefs. Um, yeah, so my, um, I think, I mean, first of all, like when sort of V1 of social platforms arrived, um, [20:17] They were built by engineers because technology then was harder to build. And so that's why a lot of the biggest companies we now see their founders were engineers or sort of had technical. [20:30] expertise. I think now that technology is significantly easier to build and you can get an MVP out with little to no code at all, that

[20:42] makes a huge space for people who are, say, more like people-oriented in their prior roles, like marketing or a strong understanding of consumer psychology, community awareness. That gives us a massive opportunity to build [20:56] social products or products that are powered by a sort of social network. Um, [21:02] to like and now allows for them to be created without with very little cost um and that I think is really exciting and I obviously as you mentioned haven't got a technical background but I'm like I often think about the future of social and I'm like do we want [21:19] engineers building the future of social as in like coming up with the ideas or do we want people who have worked in social who have worked at communities who have worked [21:28] and built audiences before for brands or for other platforms. [21:32] to be the ones that [21:33] sort of shape what that future looks like and I and I think it's so I think both roles are obviously incredibly important but putting humans more at the center of this future wave I obviously believe to be sort of crucial. [21:47] Yeah. So I'm so curious about your... [21:51] Founder journey. What's, did you raise money? Like where, how big is your team? Like what's the status of where you're at? [22:00] And what do you need? What are you looking for? What are we looking for? Um, [22:03] Machine learning engineers who are ideally female. We actually have a couple in the pipeline, but yeah, any more send us, send us.

[22:15] Send them my way. Yeah, our founding journey. So our first check actually came from Techstars in 2020. [22:22] And then we raised money from angels. We did a pre-seed round... [22:27] after we'd launched an MVP and sort of gained initial traction. We did that in 2021. And then sort of like launched into beta and started building an audience and developing [22:38] like testing with a large audience basically. Um, and then just before summer, we closed our seed round. Um, and now we're really like, thank you. Yeah. Going into our sort of, [22:49] We've tested tons. We think we know what needs to come next. Hiring the people to make that happen. [22:55] Yeah. [22:56] Nice. What was your fundraising experience? Dina, our fundraising experience was just brutal. Just wanted to die every single day. I don't know if you've seen this tweet of like, [23:08] It's a picture of someone's calendar and it's like the first morning is like prepare for meeting and then it's like meeting and then it's like recover from meeting. Recover from meeting. I did see that. Every time I see that, I'm like, oh my God, that was what it was like fundraising. We're just like all day. I was just like sweating it out and then I would have the call and then afterward I'd be like, okay, I have to like debrief this. It's gotten better. But I mean, not that we're fundraising now, but like that feeling I think wouldn't be the same today. But I'm curious what your experience was like. [23:35] Um, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing with fundraising is that it's just such a closed and private world that you really don't have any context into how to run a process unless someone tells you like what you might assume would lead to financing, but probably wouldn't unless you've actually had experience or awareness into what it takes to close around.

[23:58] I think that that, like for our first round, like we were taught how to do that by Techstars. So we could have had that exposure. I knew vaguely what it was going to be like, but you always learn... [24:08] million things while you're doing it. For our seed round I think I really got to [24:14] grips with [24:15] what it is and really just figure it out it's basically a game um and you have to learn to love the game otherwise you're not going to win it um and you have to learn to be [24:27] So, [24:29] totally fine with everyone rejecting you um because otherwise your entire mental health and sense of self-worth will quickly disappear um but yeah I think for us like it was not fun like our pre-seed was so so hard um and we got some really great investors in the end but it [24:51] I don't want to say easier because we also closed around the week that the entire economy decided to just like collapse. [25:05] embraced the game and was like, I know what I need to do. [25:09] Man, what you're saying about like there being sort of these unwritten rules and this like sort of private world, like that really doesn't bode well for underrepresented founders who like don't have the access to things like Techstars or to people and resources who've done this before to you. And like, this just sucks. [25:27] Yeah, it's really, it's a huge problem. Um,

[25:33] But I mean, just bringing it back to what you're building, I think that's like, [25:36] having the ability to have safe conversations in a place where you feel like people can, um, [25:41] That's actually like the first thing that came to mind when you started talking about like the closed doors of fundraising. I'm like, oh, what a... [25:47] like a beautiful use case for DM and what people could be doing on your platform. Well, we're so excited we got to chat with you. To sort of close this out here, what's one thing that you're just like – [26:00] really excited about right now and for this year. [26:04] One thing I'm really excited about is our head of product design joins on Monday. And I'm so thrilled. And so I just like cannot wait for her to join. And I'm so excited. [26:15] to work with her so that's one thing. Next year really I'm feeling very positive [26:21] about 2023. [26:23] As someone who's worked within partnerships, and that's sort of my whole mindset, I'm really excited to work with [26:29] other leaders in the sort of consumer, social and community space, emerging leaders to band together to really like make this happen, like to make [26:37] this reality of what the future of social could look like really come to life. I don't necessarily believe that you can do it just by yourself anymore. And having that sort of [26:47] uh community um pushing it forward all together will be really exciting so i'm feeling very optimistic about 2023 from a social perspective um [26:57] But yeah, it was great to chat with you both. Yeah, thanks so much for coming on.

[27:08] Time for some Dow updates. [27:11] We have... Oh, we're recording. Okay, sorry. We're recording. We are live. The mic is hot. It's on a different tab. Hot mic. [27:21] Okay. [27:23] So [27:25] We've been talking a lot about the roadmapping that Dina and I have been doing. [27:30] And... [27:32] we've started to roll that out to founding team, core team. We're talking to contributors. [27:39] in a few days. [27:40] And... [27:43] we want to talk through that structure here preview it here. So we're going to do the full trailer. This is a trailer. This is the, this is the trailer for the, for the roadmap. Um, [27:54] If you want the full picture, then come to the town hall, which we're scheduling for the 20th. It's going to be a festive town hall. Festive themed. Holiday season. So we're going to do the full roadmap there. [28:08] And... [28:10] I think also like... [28:12] I kind of want to do like a live SWOT analysis. Oh my God. Like a group spot. [28:19] Anyway, that might be too chaotic, but yeah, it sounds so chaotic. Come, come to that for the full thing. But I, we're going to talk a little bit about the rough, the rough outlines of it here, the rough outlines. So for those who are new to this podcast, what a way, what a way to jump on in, but I'm just going to zoom out. [28:37] a little bit for people. Essentially, what...

[28:41] we've been doing is trying to figure out [28:43] For the last year, Boys Club has been around, we have been [28:48] experimenting, testing, throwing things at the wall, incubating teams, incubating ideas, like that's been the work that we have been focused on, very intentionally in experimentation mode, [28:59] and trying to like put things out as low stakes as possible. [29:03] There have been [29:04] With a goal. [29:05] Just to interject, to just orient the listener. With the ultimate goal to find... [29:12] Sustainability for the Dow. [29:13] Yes. Financial sustainability for the Dow. [29:17] We had an NFT sale, which is what makes up the Dow Treasury, but that was a one-time- One-hit wonder. [29:25] one hit wonder cash cash and flow and there's not like we didn't design it for a strong secondary sales that's not like it wasn't a part of how we put it together and um [29:36] So there's little reoccurring revenue that's... [29:42] Little recurring, like... [29:44] sustainable revenue that's coming if we did nothing right now like if we were just like keeping things as they are [29:50] Yeah, so the whole goal of all this experimentation, all this stuff that we've been doing over the past year, [29:54] has been to try and figure out a way to [29:57] make this thing [29:58] have some repeatable recurring revenue. [30:02] Yes. [30:03] Great. [30:04] Thank you for the context. [30:07] That has been the work that we've been doing. [30:09] Then there started to be these areas

[30:12] where there was a lot of energy around. [30:15] primarily media, [30:16] and Product Studio. [30:18] Or like... [30:19] building and incubating products. [30:21] And then [30:22] the work and the question became, OK, [30:25] As these things start to emerge and have legs and have energy around them, [30:31] What can we do to [30:35] set them up for success. Like what can we do to, as these businesses and opportunities for reoccurring revenue, [30:43] What is the structure in which they will be most set up to thrive? [30:49] And is that in the DAO? If it's not in the DAO, how does it relate to the DAO? And like, [30:53] It sounds very simple, but these are incredibly complex questions to be figuring out when you have an illegal entity of a DAO that doesn't have a liquid token. You have teams that are working on these individual projects, and there's a ton of questions that start to come about, especially when our core mission and vision is how are we... [31:12] building something big that continues to add value and revenue back to a shared treasury. [31:17] So, [31:18] That's really, we were stuck for a while there. [31:23] Would you agree? Totally. Fully. Very stock. Very stock. [31:27] Because it was like... [31:28] questions primarily around the legal structure and then also around where do these things, what container do these different projects [31:36] Where did they live? [31:38] And how can we do best by them, basically? And then if we're doing best by them, how does that relate back to doing best?

[31:44] best by the community. [31:47] So do you want to talk a little bit about where we landed? Sure. So yeah, we'll do a little teaser. So, um, [31:54] And I want to preface this by saying that this isn't going to be right for all [31:57] Dows? [31:58] and this isn't gospel, [32:00] At all. [32:01] N- [32:02] It's... [32:03] It's odd. [32:04] It might actually be very specific to Ardell. It could very well be. [32:08] And so I just want to say that, like, I'm not saying that this is the way to do it, but this is the way that we're thinking about doing it. [32:16] which is that [32:18] kind of taking... [32:21] Lean startup methodology. Yeah. [32:23] Where... [32:24] you are in sort of singular pursuit of product market fit. [32:29] with as agile and as small and as nimble of a team as possible. [32:33] Um, [32:35] using that sort of philosophy and basically spinning things out of the DAO. [32:41] once they start to get like, [32:44] some meaningful energy behind them. [32:47] into their own... [32:49] C-Corps or else. What's that? Sorry. When you say energy, it's also like some product market fit. Some indicator. Some sense of traction. Yeah. Some sense of traction. Some sense of traction. [33:01] So, um... [33:02] We have two kind of live examples, but... [33:07] one is one thing that you didn't say that I just think I want to get right out of the gate. Yeah. Is spinning them out into their own C corps. Yeah.

[33:15] always with a relationship back to the Dow. [33:19] whether that be [33:20] Revenue. [33:21] equity, something that is tied to the shared treasury, [33:26] even though it can spin out into an individual world. [33:30] thing that exists in the world. Exactly. So there's still that, that, that, [33:34] financial and value relationship back to the Dow. [33:38] of all these things that are spinning out. [33:40] So that that is the driver of [33:44] recurring... [33:46] sustainable revenue for the Dow itself into the Dow Treasury. Mm-hmm. [33:51] But these things are in their own container so that we can properly incentivize a team, their legal structures, it's very clear, they have a very narrow remit. [34:03] they're basically just like [34:05] grinding on trying to find product market fit for one specific thing. [34:08] Um, [34:09] and able to move very, very fast. So one of the things that [34:13] The DAOs are great for a lot of things, and we can talk about all the things that DAOs are incredible for. [34:18] The... [34:20] But what we personally haven't found Dallas to be great for is like, [34:25] just being super nimble. [34:26] and making decisions really quickly and like shipping stuff fast. [34:32] - Yeah. - So... [34:34] That's kind of the rationale. And so the ultimate goal is like we have a constellation of these [34:41] Entities, projects, products. Entities, projects, properties that are sort of

[34:46] surrounding the Tao, [34:48] feeding funds back into the DAO. And the DAO basically acts as like a foundation, like sort of like a foundation, like this mission, [34:56] oriented foundation that is doing things like nurturing the community, giving out grants, like doing things to sort of further the, [35:04] ethos behind Boys Club. [35:07] And doing all the sort of networking, all of that thing, like, is amazing in the DAO. [35:12] And I think, I mean, I think like... [35:17] The... [35:19] Like... [35:20] Deep rationale here is like, [35:23] we could have boys club as like a cool nonprofit where we go get grants and we are sustained off of, [35:32] The generosity of others and other initiatives that support what Boys Club is doing is [35:40] But... [35:41] I... [35:43] want to make a super interesting business for boys club. And I want the heartbeat of boys club, which is the Dow to be self-sustaining in some capacity. And like this vision, um, [35:55] if we can pull it off, is like... [35:58] really interesting and feels very much like on the edges of what's possible now because of Web3 and feels like totally new ground that we're sort of like treading into. [36:10] So it's really exciting to me. It's very complicated and difficult to get to that, but I am feeling really, really excited and energized by what's possible when...

[36:22] like as we've started to do the work to get to the other side of like the next steps. [36:25] I also think when I'm thinking about the mission of bringing new people into Web3, that being sort of the driving force behind Boys Club. [36:34] will be way more effective at that mission. [36:38] If... [36:39] not relying on grants. Like I think that grants are like great and fine, but like I don't. Yeah. I think that if we have like four or five very successful businesses that are [36:49] feeding funds back into the DAO, [36:53] that are all in service in many ways of one another as well. Like if we set up this media entity and we also have a product studio, the media entity acts as a distribution arm for the products that are coming out of the product studio. So there's relationships between them as well. And, you know, [37:07] It creates this really interesting dynamic and I think ultimately very profitable... [37:13] universe of stuff that makes the Dow and the Dow treasury, [37:18] And the potentially very powerful and like very powerful. [37:22] Yeah. Like able to do a lot with the money that's coming to the Dow Treasury to further the mission of bringing new people into this new world. So – [37:31] I think that's... [37:32] That's what it is. So come to the town hall if you're interested. We'll be talking more about it and... [37:41] Thanks for listening. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Hey, Natasha. Yeah, Dina. [37:47] Who is this podcast sponsored by? This podcast is brought to you by MoonPay. And it's very easy to be sponsored by someone when you legitimately like them and think that their product is really great. So here's the thing. At Boys Club, we are acutely aware of how cumbersome the onboarding of new people into crypto is. Even the simplest thing, like setting up a wallet or buying a token, can be so overwhelming.

[38:17] moonpay changes all of that it's fast and simple and incredibly user-friendly they make it so so easy to jump into web3 so easy that you can use your credit or debit card to buy and sell crypto and other digital collectibles for all you crypto native people out there you know that this is an absolute rarity it's trusted by millions worldwide and loved by yours truly at boys club visit moonpay.com to get started we love you moonpay [38:44] Hi. [38:45] Okay, draft tweets. [38:47] I have some unfortunate news. [38:50] No, you're at a zero this week. [38:52] Uh... [38:56] I mean, I have some, but they're really not very good. [39:00] Okay, go ahead. [39:04] I [39:05] Um... [39:06] Okay, mine isn't a draft tweet. [39:08] It's kind of a draft TikTok. [39:11] Oh, my God. Wow. So it's – [39:15] fucking the format here, but I'll tell you what it is conceptually. [39:19] And then if you're into it, maybe I'll make it actually into the TikTok. Okay. So I'm watching Friday Night Lights. I'm almost done. And honestly, I need to be released. We've been talking about this for four weeks. I must be released from the grips. [39:33] You have to. I have to. You have to. I'm just like really getting. It's your entire personality. It is. Also, I have started watching White Lotus too, which we can talk about. Oh, so good. [39:42] Okay, so especially in the earlier seasons, [39:45] There was a lot of...

[39:48] like, [39:50] continuity and prop errors. [39:52] It was like sloppily made. Yeah. Low budget. Low budget. Really low budget. That was sort of the charm of it though. [40:00] Anyway, continue. I think that's true. And I get the like sort of shaky camera thing is intentional and like – [40:09] It was low budget part of the story? [40:11] I think low budget was part of the story, at least for the first few seasons. It was like two seasons. Okay. Okay. [40:17] Interesting. Okay. Well, there were a number that I've spotted and I've started cataloging them in my notes. Oh, great. A number of errors that I want to make a TikTok out of. That's like all the errors. The best error was... [40:33] the first one that I saw that I was like, oh my God, what is happening here? Which is that, [40:37] Two people are talking. [40:39] And – [40:40] someone goes... [40:42] "Oh, can I have like a Coke or something?" And they like go in the house and they come back out with a glass. And she says like, "Do you want lime in it?" And they're like, "Yeah, like with a lime or something." [40:52] And she comes back out with a glass in her hand of Coke with a whole lime, like a whole round lime in the glass. And it's visible. And I'm just like, how did no one on set or the two actors say anything? [41:08] You know what? You know what? That actually speaks to their ability as actors to just committed to the scene, fully committed to the scene. Okay. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Anyway, I have a couple of them.

[41:22] when I have a spare hour. [41:24] Yeah, you got to clip it together. Clip it together. [41:27] Um, okay. I really liked that. Um, I have one here that we've already talked about, not on this podcast though. It's, I do not watch GMA and I do not know these people, but can someone please send me the photographic images of this affair? I must see it for myself. And if you know anything that's going on with GMA, [41:45] I don't even know their names, but they were having an affair. I think we're about a week and a half, two weeks late on this story. Yeah, it's not topical anymore. It's completely not topical. But it was the latest draft in my draft tweet. Nice. Nice. [41:58] When I read the first story, I thought people had gotten images of them on vacation together, like making out. Canoodling. Canoodling. Yeah. And I was like, show me. I couldn't find them anywhere. Yeah. But that's not actually what happened. Yeah. And now I think they're off the air. [42:14] They were fired or like permanently taken off the air. So that's a good. That felt like a misstep. Okay. Okay. Bye. Bye.