How Reddit Went From $12M to $2.2B + Cracked Social Media Monetization

[00:00] Last time I checked, you have 121 million daily active uniques, 471 million weekly active uniques, 100k active communities, 24 billion posts and comments. Last year reached you 2.2 billion in annual revenue, which was up 69%. In 2015, I did not think that was going to happen because I didn't think more than maybe a week ahead. You've been public nearly two years now. What's that been like? [00:30] hobby of mine to catch other CEOs who are thinking about going public and tell them that they should. Being public is not so bad. Going public is tough. What role did the Reddit communities play in this process? One of the reasons is I wanted our users who have a deep sense of ownership over Reddit that they've earned. Part of our IPO was doing one of the largest directed share programs ever to let users buy into the IPO. At the IPO price, that's $34. It's a business model that scales with usage. It turns out it's a business model [01:00] is what reddit is. There's a natural fit. [01:04] *music* [01:13] Steve, welcome to Sorcery. Hi, thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for having us here at Reddit's HQ. Yeah, thanks for being here. [01:21] I was saying this, but this is genuinely a gorgeous [01:25] office. [01:27] Thank you. [01:28] I don't take it for granted. We've had some duds.

[01:31] Really? Over the years. Yeah. Yeah. [01:35] The worst is either the building was shared with [01:37] Child Protective Services. [01:39] Um, [01:40] or the [01:42] The office we had at Mid-Market, Market and Tenth. [01:45] during COVID. [01:46] Which was like a no-go zone. [01:49] We had a nice-ish office in the Tenderloin. It was a little high-low experience. Okay. So this one's good. I love this one. What were the decisions for those previous offices? Um... [02:00] - Probably financial. [02:02] I think. I didn't choose the CPS building. Well, so we shared an office with Wired when we got acquired. [02:09] That was a couple blocks from here on the other side of South Park. That was really fun. And then when I was gone, they moved out into the CPS building. [02:17] I don't know why. [02:18] This is like [02:20] That vibes. - That's not a good vibe. - In that office. Yeah. Yeah. That's not great. Not great. But here is nice. [02:25] Here's nice, here's great vibes. The present is nice. Yeah, we, we, now is great. Well, I first want to shout out Michael Barton at CO2 for making the introduction. [02:36] Really appreciate that. Thank you, Michael. Last time I saw you was right before your earnings. You had a nice dinner with a handful of people. I met your CFO. I met your CMO. I sat next to Sierra. We had a great time. And the food was delicious. I don't know. You guys. Yeah. Now I'm blinking on the name of that restaurant. I would love to give them a shout out. It was great. It was great. If I recall that restaurant. [03:00] during COVID.

[03:02] was like making meals. Or the chef who started that restaurant was like making meals for people and helping other restaurants. They have like a really nice... [03:08] story as well. [03:10] You've been public nearly two years now. What's that been like? What's the status of the business today? [03:18] Being public is great. [03:20] And... [03:22] And I've... [03:23] It's like a side hobby of mine to [03:26] catch other CEOs who are thinking about going public. [03:30] and tell them that they should. [03:32] I mean, there's one big if there, which is like, if you're ready, [03:36] Um, [03:37] But I feel like [03:39] There was so much... [03:41] It's easy to find feedback. It's easy to find a CEO who took their company public. [03:45] and then regrets it. [03:47] And [03:49] It doesn't make sense to me. [03:51] You know, you get to do this really incredible thing. [03:54] for many people, [03:55] It's... [03:57] It's a... [03:58] once in a life for most people to a once in a lifetime thing that I think anybody in business would aspire to or most people in business would aspire to. [04:06] And then you spend the rest of your career bitching about it. [04:08] It just, that doesn't, [04:09] And it's like so great for the business. It's so great for employees. And, you know, you do right by your investors. [04:16] you know, in theory, um, [04:18] And... [04:20] I think for us, all those things are true. [04:22] very happy for our employees and for the people who supported Reddit along the way. [04:27] And... [04:28] It's also made us a better business. [04:30] like the rigor, the routine, the pressure,

[04:34] I think all of that [04:36] has really helped us. [04:38] So [04:39] There's no question we would not [04:42] be where we are today without going public. [04:45] then being public is not so bad. [04:47] You kind of get in the routine of things. And it's nice. Going public is tough. Like that [04:53] We were on like a two-year-- [04:54] Purgatory. We thought we were going to go out in 2022. [04:58] The markets were closed then and we thought, [05:01] we'd be one of the first companies out. [05:03] And it'd be a little chaotic, but Reddit's a little chaotic. So we're like, let's go for it. That fits. [05:07] And then things got really chaotic. So we waited. [05:10] We were on file for two years updating our S1 every quarter. [05:14] before we finally went out in '24. [05:16] But I'm so glad we did. [05:19] Yeah, you were one of the companies that [05:23] tested the waters for most of the tech market. Now, I would say like, [05:27] The public market's really tilted in your favor. The stock's been doing tremendously well. You've had great performance. [05:34] And... [05:36] I think, I think, [05:38] people are, [05:39] trying to test the waters again right now and are like looking for more stories. Um, [05:45] to see what will happen, but the AI volatility is making it really hard for software companies. For you, what do you think led to the success of the IPO and the strength of [05:57] the business through that. [05:59] I think there are two things. So one is the business itself and then maybe the conditions. [06:03] So the business itself was...

[06:05] really starting to click. [06:07] So we've had revenue growth over 60% for five quarters in a row. [06:12] And we were able to get to [06:15] gap profitability in our first year out a little bit ahead of schedule. [06:18] And so that sort of momentum [06:21] It was very helpful, right? Just having the business work. [06:24] I think especially in our space, [06:27] where we've seen [06:28] companies [06:29] go public at our scale, but then not be profitable for a while or have some other [06:34] you know, maybe business gotchas, [06:36] But we learned from that. And so getting the profitability was really important to us. [06:42] um, [06:43] The conditions are interesting. [06:46] You know, when we went out, [06:47] Um... [06:49] It was like $34 a share was the IPO price. So we went out March 2024. Our last private round was in [06:59] End of 21. [07:00] Share price was $61. So we went out with a pretty big valuation haircut. [07:05] from our previous peak. [07:08] because the conditions were a little choppy. [07:12] But... [07:14] The price can either go up or down. [07:16] So if you go out at the low end, [07:20] much higher likelihood of it going up. [07:23] and [07:24] you know, when some companies go public, they really try to push the valuation. [07:29] Thank you. [07:30] And you save some on dilution. [07:34] But if you go out at a lower price, and this is what the advice I generally give, is go out at a lower price so you can have that momentum.

[07:41] carry your price up. [07:43] Everybody's happy. [07:45] Your new investors are happy, your employees will be happy, [07:48] um, [07:50] it costs you a little bit of dilution, [07:53] But I think it's the best marketing dollars you may ever spend. [07:56] You make a lot of friends. [07:57] that way. [07:58] And so Reddit's price has been volatile. [08:01] you know, over the last couple of years. [08:03] But it's volatile between like [08:05] you know, [08:06] 100 something and 200 something. [08:08] We IPO'd at $34. [08:11] So we made a lot of friends. A lot of people did really well. And I'm very happy about that. And so we had to, you know, maybe [08:19] uh, [08:20] swallow our ego a little bit and just take effectively a down round. [08:24] But then we grew out of it. [08:26] I feel really good about how that played out. [08:29] What role did the Reddit communities play in this process? [08:35] So, [08:36] One of the reasons to go public. [08:39] is I wanted our [08:41] our users. [08:43] who [08:44] have [08:46] a sense of ownership over Reddit, a deep sense of ownership. [08:49] that they've earned. Everything interesting about Reddit is created by our users. [08:53] you [08:54] I wanted them to be able to actually be owners of Reddit. [08:57] And so [08:58] Part of our IPO was doing one of the largest directed share programs ever. [09:04] to let users buy into the IPO. [09:07] at the IPO price at $34. [09:10] In a normal ideal, what would happen

[09:12] is the retail investors [09:15] they invest at the first trade. [09:17] So if there's a pop, it would be higher. So we popped to $47. That would normally be their price. But we're like, we want the users to be able to buy in at the same price that the [09:28] IPO investors get. [09:30] And my only regret is... [09:34] not getting more users into that program. We actually had capacity to do a lot more [09:38] Um, [09:40] But what we were fighting and I learned some lessons here. [09:45] We had [09:47] Within the last year of during RPO, we got in a big fight with our user base. [09:52] over the API. [09:53] API access. So a lot of the users were mad at us and then didn't invest in the IPO. [10:00] And [10:01] because of the quiet period, [10:03] You can't really say anything. [10:05] You can't sell the stock. And there's good reasons for that, obviously. [10:11] So, [10:12] there was a negative sentiment among our users. So we did get a lot in. Every user who came into our DSP [10:19] We fulfilled their full order. [10:21] And I just wish we'd [10:23] could have, um, [10:26] I wish more users would have participated because they all did very well. [10:30] But I'm still very proud [10:32] that we went through that. And I think [10:35] as a general [10:37] As a general thing, I think if you're taking your company public, finding ways to include

[10:42] you know, your customers or your users, your biggest supporters in that ride is [10:47] is a special opportunity. [10:49] I've had some pretty awesome interviews with public company CEOs that have [10:55] crazy cult. [10:57] audiences and cult communities around them. One being Alex Karp and Palantir. They've got an amazing cult community around them. I did Open Door recently. They have the Open Army. And I also did Archer, which went public via SPAC, and they attribute their success as a public company to their online communities on Reddit. Like, he said that that, Adam, the CEO, has said that their Reddit community played a central role in making that a viable platform. [11:24] stock and a viable IPO and kind of their process as a public company. What do you think the biggest misconceptions are for... [11:35] Reddit communities. [11:38] any community, [11:39] on whether on Reddit, [11:42] or online or offline, [11:45] by definition, I think has a few things. Like what is a community? [11:49] And so I think a community [11:51] is not just a shared set of interests. [11:54] That's one dimension. [11:55] There's also a shared set of values. [11:58] There's usually an affection or care [12:01] for one another, the members. [12:03] often like a [12:05] just kind of shared vernacular or vocabulary. [12:08] And so we see this on Reddit.

[12:12] Putting aside the [12:14] the stock or company based communities. [12:17] almost every Reddit community has these qualities. [12:21] And [12:22] I think [12:23] If you don't spend a lot of time on Reddit, [12:27] It's hard to appreciate this. [12:29] Because elsewhere, what you see online are more interest groups. [12:32] but you lack the community aspect that really kind of binds things together. [12:38] Now, Reddit's interesting because there's [12:40] Reddit is communities. [12:42] It's thousands and thousands of communities. [12:45] One of the big evolutions that we've been through [12:48] over the last [12:49] Reddit's 20 years old, maybe call it over the last 10 years or so. [12:53] is I think the... [12:55] dilution of the Reddit community. [12:59] Like when we started Reddit, there were no subreddits. [13:01] It was really just one [13:03] Place, the Reddit community. [13:06] which had a distinct tone. [13:08] Um, [13:09] Now there isn't just one place. [13:11] And so we've seen that kind of Reddit community split into thousands of sub-communities. [13:18] um [13:19] Thank you. [13:21] But each of the sub-communities does have an opinion about Reddit, the platform. [13:25] And that's evolved. [13:27] that's evolved a lot as well. Like one of my favorite communities now is like the Reddit stock community. [13:32] which are user shareholders. [13:34] It's not... [13:37] It's not as meme-y as some of the other ones. [13:40] Which is a common, actually, [13:42] pattern on Reddit. Like Reddit creates virality, but itself is not viral. Reddit creates meme stocks, but itself

[13:48] isn't really that you get this a little bit of that energy, but not like those other companies. [13:53] um, [13:54] But it's really special to see [13:56] the Reddit stock users [13:59] Yep. [14:00] support each other. [14:01] Like they really seem to do care about how, not just how Reddit does, but how their fellow shareholders are doing. [14:08] I was thinking about that on the way over and preparing this because I've gone through and I've seen how well you've been able to grow the ad side of the business, whereas some other social platforms still are struggling. Why do you think advertising has become so attractive on Reddit? [14:25] So... [14:26] There's another paradox here in our history, which is when we started Reddit, I hated ads. [14:31] And... [14:32] If you go on Reddit, there's like this... [14:34] almost like anti-commercial vibe. Yeah. Still on Reddit. [14:38] And that's because Reddit [14:39] is authentic. [14:42] And so it's easy to go from authentic to anti-ads. But that's not actually... [14:46] What's happening? [14:47] um, [14:48] It turns out [14:50] Much to our surprise and good fortune, [14:53] what people talk about. [14:55] is... [14:57] What should I buy next? [15:00] Like 40% of the conversations on Reddit are commercial. [15:02] The anti-commercial space, that's what people talk about. But they don't usually say, "What should I buy?" They say, [15:09] What should I watch? What should I wear? Where should I go? What game should I play? What should I listen to? [15:15] And so they're asking their friends, [15:17] their online friends or community members,

[15:21] advice it just happens to be that advice is often answering a question of [15:26] What should I buy? And so [15:30] What that means is Reddit has become [15:34] an essential part of people's purchasing decisions. [15:37] which makes it a really natural fit for advertisers. [15:41] One of our old creative strategists. [15:44] This guy, Will Cady, he was here for a long time. He had this saying that I love. [15:48] which is users hate ads but they love brands. [15:51] And [15:53] Just... [15:53] one of brands only way to communicate with their customers is through ads. [15:57] But on Reddit, there's on... [15:59] uh, [16:01] the brands are increasingly figuring out how to use the ads to communicate [16:04] in a uniquely Reddit way. But we have a lot of subreddits. Take all the advertising away. We have a lot of subreddits dedicated to brands. [16:12] and their products. [16:14] you know, our biggest category [16:16] for a long time was gaming. [16:19] Like every gaming subreddit is really a product about or is a community about a product. And so [16:25] There's just such a natural overlap. [16:28] And then at the same time, our ads work. [16:30] We've just invested a lot in our own ad tech so that the [16:34] the targeting and the measurement and all these things that that [16:37] advertisers need to actually get a return on. [16:40] Thank you. [16:41] and [16:43] Reddit works as a brand platform and as a performance platform. [16:47] We've had to kind of grow our way into this and build our way into this.

[16:53] But it only works because the foundation [16:55] kind of lined up with what the customer you know the user [16:59] the users, where the customers, of our customers, [17:03] you know, everything lines up nicely. [17:06] Sorcery is brought to you by Brex, the financial stack trusted by more than 30,000 companies, including one in three venture-backed startups in the U.S. Nearly 40% of startups fail because they run out of cash. Brex is literally built to help founders avoid that. Unlike traditional banks that let your money sit idle, chipping away at it with fees, Brex is designed to help you spend smarter and move faster. [17:35] powerful account. You can send and receive money globally at lightning speeds, get 20 times the standard FDIC coverage through their partner banks, and even high yield from day one. With same day and even same hour liquidity, access your funds anytime. Companies like Scale AI, DoorDash, Service Titan, HIMSS, Anthropic, Flexport, Robinhood, and Plaid trust and use Brex. [18:05] Turing is training the next generation of AI with tasks that require real expertise and real world judgment. That's why companies like NVIDIA, Anthropic, Salesforce, and Gemini partner with Turing. Turing builds realistic reinforcement learning environments and data systems based on real operational traces. The kind of infrastructure Frontier Labs need to train superintelligence. Visit Turing.com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y.

[18:36] Is this how you transitioned so seamlessly with a huge splash into training data? So I think last time I checked, Reddit has done over 24 billion posts and comments. And so these platforms like OpenAI are using the training data. [18:51] in their algorithms for their LLMs, that kind of thing. How did that come to be? Well, that's been an interesting third chapter for us. Right, if the first chapter of Reddit is [19:03] Reddit's not traditional media. [19:05] That was our thinking 20 years ago. It's just we need another source of information. [19:11] And then the second chapter was Reddit's Not Social Media. [19:15] um [19:17] Reddit is different than social media. It's organized around communities, not the [19:20] what I call the F's friends, family, famous people, followers. [19:26] Now we're in this third chapter. [19:27] which is Reddit's not AI. [19:29] But in an interesting paradox, it is the fuel for AI. [19:34] So if you have a question on the internet, [19:36] pre-AI and post-AI, [19:38] Where is the answer going to come from? [19:40] Ultimately, the answer is going to come from other people. [19:43] which are on Reddit. [19:44] This is one, Reddit is one of the best supplies of human intelligence. [19:48] And so, yeah, Reddit's data has been used [19:52] to train every large language model you've heard of. [19:55] some with and others without our permission, [19:58] which has been a [20:00] uh, [20:01] a situation to navigate, [20:03] But with our biggest partners, Google and OpenAI,

[20:06] You know, we do it on purpose. [20:08] And I think it's worked well. [20:10] Um, [20:11] Those, you know, [20:14] big search products help people discover Reddit. [20:17] Help people learn that Reddit. [20:19] has communities relevant to them, which is one of our biggest challenges. [20:23] At this point, everybody's heard about Reddit. [20:25] but not everybody realizes that Reddit actually is relevant to them. [20:29] And so our presence in search and elsewhere on the internet actually helps just close that perception gap. [20:34] Um, [20:36] And then in turn, we get users that create more content. [20:40] which becomes more information for these AI products. [20:44] I've had a couple of conversations and [20:48] they've revolved around bots and it can expand anything from your software is going to be taken over by bots. Your blah, blah, blah is going to be blah, blah, blah. And then on these platforms, it's [21:00] OK, it's going to be full of bots. You have a really interesting take on bots. You have bots all over Reddit, and they're in plain sight. So how did you position bots on Reddit, and how do you see that evolving with the likes of OpenClaw and Autonomous Agents taking over? Oh, OK, so there's a lot here. So yeah, Reddit's had bots. [21:21] you know, pre-AI, but labeled bots. Yeah. You know, bots that'll correct your spelling, bots that answer questions, you know, little utility things, so funny things, utility things. [21:30] Our moderators [21:32] create all sorts of programs, bots, [21:35] to help moderate their communities.

[21:38] and [21:39] And [21:40] So, [21:41] That's just a part of the Reddit ecosystem. [21:43] When people say bots today, they're referring to... [21:46] you know, AI masquerading as humans. [21:49] That's not allowed on Reddit. [21:51] um, [21:53] What we see, but we've invested so much over a long time on preventing people from manipulating Reddit. [22:00] Now, it's an arms race. [22:02] So [22:03] uh you know that the the front in that battle is always moving and the state of the art is always evolving and ai is another chapter in it [22:10] But it's not a news story for us. [22:13] What we see a lot of now [22:15] is the in-between. [22:18] And this is where I think it's a little bit more of a gray area. [22:21] which is a human user. They registered as a human. [22:24] They're using Reddit. [22:25] but they used an LLM to write their post. [22:30] But what's interesting is [22:32] then it's a minority of posts on Reddit, but you will see it. [22:36] Um, [22:37] But when you see those posts on Reddit, [22:40] The comments will basically say, [22:42] you know, [22:43] Go away bot. [22:44] Or, you know, thanks for the post open AI or whatever. [22:49] And so, [22:50] We're going through right now this [22:52] I think development of [22:56] like the immune system. [22:57] Like before we have a policy that says you can't use prompts, which I don't think we're going to have that policy. [23:02] because that's just how people are going to write. [23:04] in a couple of years, everybody's going to learn how to-- for better or for worse, have learned how to write with AI.

[23:11] the communities themselves reject that sort of content. [23:14] That's basically low effort. [23:16] and they downvote it, you know, they'll flame it in the comments. [23:20] And you don't see that on other platforms. [23:22] I see slop and now AI slop. [23:26] just going unchecked. Yeah. [23:28] And it's just... [23:30] I don't know, it makes these platforms very unpleasant to use. Agents are like a whole other can of worms, which is [23:36] You've got an agent using Reddit. [23:38] um [23:40] But I think [23:41] I mean, this is going to be a very popular way of using the internet. So we can't just say no agents. [23:46] Yeah. [23:47] The way we're thinking about it today is we want to make sure there's an ass in seat. [23:51] Like, are you physically watching this thing? - That's crazy. [23:56] And we'll have to see where that goes. I still think if you use a bot AI to write content on Reddit, today it's going to get flamed because the AIs actually aren't very good writers. [24:06] But that's a societal thing we're all learning. [24:08] which is like when these things came out, we were so amazed. It's like, wow, look how much content they can produce. [24:14] But then after a year or two of this, you're like, oh, [24:17] It's all the same tone. It's kind of, it used to be flat. Now it's like this weird bombastic [24:23] style of writing that's like really stands out. [24:27] I presume it'll get better. [24:29] Um, [24:30] But our point is... [24:32] At the minimum, we want a human behind it. [24:34] The idea has to come from a human. And if it's not, we'll probably reject it, and our community will definitely reject it. - With your highly advanced ASINCT protocol credential system,

[24:46] How do you now look at other platforms and what kind of mistakes do you think they're making? I don't want to... [24:53] Judge other platforms. [24:56] think [24:58] One thing that's always been important to Reddit [25:01] is the authenticity. [25:03] And... [25:06] I've said for a long time, Reddit is... [25:09] the world's greatest bullshit detector. [25:11] Red is very sensitive to inauthenticity. [25:15] So whether it's written by AI or it's some self-serving piece of content, [25:20] or just low effort or crap. [25:23] The community has a, they don't want that. [25:25] Like that is one of the things... [25:28] that Reddit. [25:29] broadly craves is authenticity. [25:32] And so our users fight for it, our mods fight for it, we fight for it. [25:36] Reddit's never been, [25:39] the engagement platform. [25:41] Find the most engaging or enraging post to drive time on site or to drive traffic. [25:48] That's just not how we run the business. [25:50] That's not what our community wants. [25:53] when we were watching social media explode, right? We predate [25:56] almost every social media platform. [25:58] We're like a year younger than... [26:00] Facebook. [26:01] YouTube was maybe six months old when we launched. But then [26:05] You know, Instagram and TikTok and Snap and Twitter, all these companies came later and grew past us. [26:12] We saw what they were doing. [26:14] And we just said, that's not, I wouldn't work on Roto.

[26:17] It would kill Reddit. [26:18] We could do that. And at the time we were making almost a business decision. [26:22] Well, a values decision and a business decision [26:24] which to me felt like, okay, we're going to be smaller, [26:27] because we're not going to do those things. But if we did those things, [26:31] We'd kill the soul of Reddit. [26:33] I'm very pleased that [26:36] I think because we were stubborn, [26:38] We get to exist today. [26:40] What I was wrong about [26:42] is that red art would always be small. [26:44] Turns out people actually really appreciate what we're doing. [26:47] It's just been a slower burn. It's taken us longer to get here. [26:50] But I think in a world where social media is huge, [26:54] It actually creates a context for Reddit, or creates a context for people to appreciate [26:57] why Reddit is the way it is. [27:00] and now even more so with AI. [27:02] where the whole Internet becomes sanitized and summarized by AI. [27:06] which actually has a lot of value [27:10] but it causes people to appreciate the humanness of Reddit. [27:13] And so [27:14] Now we've seen... [27:16] this pattern enough times if we just stick to the things that we love about Reddit, the principles and values that got us here. [27:23] we can continue to grow this thing that we love in a unique way. [27:27] I think a lot of people should try to post a self-promoting post on Reddit and just see what happens. A couple of years ago, when I was helping out some of the portfolio companies with their go-to-market strategies, we tried to promote the companies on Reddit and it was a complete flame out. It did not work out. And we're like, all right, we're going to need like a real expert who understands this platform and the communities and the language and what works in order to like actually integrate it. But that's an entirely like, yeah, it's a separate job.

[27:57] Tricky to do well. [27:58] or [27:59] You could just buy ads. You could just buy ads. It's that simple. No organic for you. Well, it is it is hard. It's it's doable. [28:12] But you have to [28:14] I actually tell this to customers. [28:17] Like, [28:17] Before you advertise on Reddit, you should use Reddit. [28:20] Like you have to have some native understanding of [28:23] the culture here and how it's different. [28:26] And then you can [28:27] You'll be more successful both paid and organic. [28:32] One of the first early rules of Reddit. [28:35] was no self-promotion. [28:38] that kind of emerged from the community. [28:40] It's the one thing, I'm so torn on this. I'd love to have that one back. [28:44] because Reddit [28:46] loves, [28:48] original content. [28:50] but Reddit hates self-promotion. [28:53] But I'm like, where do you think original content comes from? [28:56] And so there's a line in there. [28:58] you know, [28:59] between a writer, an artist, like some creator who's actually creating great stuff, [29:06] And maybe a [29:08] a company who's just trying to [29:10] Use Reddit to promote their stuff. [29:12] And so [29:14] We're trying to find how do we navigate that? Because we want the artists, the creators, the writers, the people who have interesting things to say and share. [29:21] um, [29:23] We want the brands too. [29:25] But the brands need to show up as brands.

[29:27] Like, it's okay for them to say, "We're here to sell you stuff." [29:30] In fact, they do a lot better. [29:32] paid and organic if they just tell the truth. I'm here to sell you something. [29:37] Like tried and true organic strategy on Reddit for a brand is to do an AMA. [29:42] Like I'm [29:43] You know, famous director. I'm here to answer your questions. I'm also here to promote my movie. [29:48] People get that. Or I'm here to answer questions. I'm also here to promote my book. [29:51] I think... [29:53] There's... [29:54] The difference is, I think, when you're transparent, [29:57] It's still authentic. [29:59] You can sell stuff authentically. [30:01] But if you say you're there for one reason, but you're really there for another, they will sniff that out. [30:05] and then you will get flamed. [30:06] Yeah. [30:07] Like totally flamed. [30:10] The beauty of it. And there was definitely a lesson there in [30:13] Maybe just tell the truth. [30:16] Easier said than done, but yes. [30:18] Sometimes, I guess, [30:20] when scrolling through different feeds. [30:23] People just make shit up. [30:25] And you did say that you're a bullshit detector. [30:28] But like you're scrolling through these things and you're like, did that really happen? [30:32] There is a lot of creative writing on Reddit. [30:35] uh i i i said uh i said i [30:38] business dinner. [30:40] There's like a [30:42] Tack! [30:43] And his wife was there. [30:45] And I was working on some AI thing. [30:48] And his wife was like, I use Reddit. I love Reddit. [30:51] I was like, oh, what do you do on Reddit? She's like, oh, I love to go to relationship advice. [30:55] and make up awful stories about my husband. She's like, I've been doing this for 10 years.

[31:03] And oh, okay, my favorite, my favorite, favorite version of this story. [31:06] I got an email, this was years ago, [31:08] And the email said, [31:11] uh, [31:13] You may have seen this post. [31:15] And I had seen the post. [31:16] The post was this guy posting legal advice. [31:20] asking for advice. [31:22] and [31:23] I can't remember the original post. The original post was small, but then in the comments, as people started asking questions, [31:28] It came out that he was trying to hide a gun. [31:32] And and then people are like, what? Like, we're not going to be an accessory to whatever you did. And so the whole post had this like itself as a story as it evolved. [31:39] And it kind of blew up elsewhere on Reddit. So the author of that original post [31:43] emailed me and said, [31:44] If you hear from the police, [31:47] about this. [31:49] I want you to know this is all fake. [31:51] I made it up. It was just a troll. [31:54] And [31:55] And he's like, if you don't believe me, [31:57] you can check. [31:58] I'm also the author of these other posts. [32:01] which happened to be one of my favorite stories on Reddit from way back when about Grandpa Wiggly. [32:06] There's a series of posts, these AMAs, [32:09] like 15, 16, 17 years ago. [32:11] Where the guy's like, [32:13] My grandpa doesn't ought to use computers. [32:15] but he makes mayonnaise. [32:16] Grandpa Wiggly's mayonnaise. And so if you want to ask me questions, I'll ask my grandpa and respond with whatever he says. [32:22] He came back three times, people interviewing this old guy, Grandpa Wiggly. [32:25] He's like, I made all that up too. [32:27] Oh my God. [32:29] And we checked and it's just this guy. He's just a funny guy. [32:32] who just writes these elaborate like stories. But I think that I like.

[32:37] I don't get upset about those things. [32:39] because [32:41] The point of Reddit is often not the post. [32:43] The point is the conversation. [32:46] You read this relationship advice or am I the asshole or whatever, [32:51] Like the experience is the conversation. The conversation is real. [32:54] The post is just a prompt for a conversation. [32:57] So sometimes it's a real request for advice. [33:00] sometimes [33:02] It might be a troll. [33:03] But the advice is real. [33:05] and [33:07] The experience is real. [33:09] The community is real. [33:12] But sometimes people are just goofing off. [33:13] And I think that's [33:15] one of the fun things about Reddit. That's amazing. I love that story. Yeah. I, uh, do you remember there was like, this is kind of dark, but that Netflix movie or something where like people on the internet, like fought to find like the killer of this like cat. And it was like this whole thing. And it's like, you just can't. [33:32] You can't beat the internet. [33:33] Yeah. [33:35] Um, you can't beat the internet in a lot of ways, you know, for better or for worse. You just think about how much attention is concentrated in some of those moments. [33:44] Um, [33:46] It is bewildering. We've seen this in the [33:49] the [33:50] Usage numbers. [33:52] We had this one account, used to be the highest account [33:55] uh, [33:56] the highest karma account on Reddit. [33:58] QGYH2 was the username. [34:01] and [34:04] We were just like, is this a real person or is this a bot? [34:07] This is like 15 years ago.

[34:08] or more. [34:09] Bots like that weren't really a thing yet, that sort of automation. [34:13] And [34:14] everything we could find suggested this was a real person. [34:17] In fact, somebody on our team eventually met this person. [34:19] but they were spending like 18 hours a day. [34:22] on Reddit. And we're just like, when does this person sleep? Like, this is insane. [34:28] But some people just have that sort of attention and stamina and... [34:33] You know, whatever it is. [34:35] that you add that up thousands of times and [34:40] Yeah, some crazy things can emerge. [34:42] VCX by Fundrise, the public ticker for private tech, allowing investors of all sizes to invest in venture capital. View the portfolio at GetVCX.com. That's GetVCX.com. [34:57] Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called Generated Assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before. Here's how it works. You type in an idea like AI-powered supply chain companies with positive free cash flow, or defense tech companies growing revenue over 25% year over year. [35:27] why each stock is included. And before you invest, you can even backtest your idea against the S&P 500, so you're making decisions with real context, not just guessing. And beyond generated assets, Public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, all in one place. They'll even give you an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com/sourcery.

[35:53] Paid for by Public Investing. Full disclosures in the description. [35:57] Founders ship faster on Deel. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, and get visas handled fast so you stay focused on scaling. Deel takes care of onboarding, HR, IT, ER, benefits, and compliance so your team can grow without borders. It's why more than 37,000 fast-growing companies trust Deel to move fast. Visit deel.com slash sorcery. That's deel.com slash s-o-u-r-c-e-r-y. [36:24] To the point of human verification and just understanding if people are human or not on these platforms, I recently interviewed Alex Bwania of Tools for Humanity. And so one of the interesting points that he had is he said, [36:39] In two months, [36:41] maybe max two years, these platforms will not be usable unless they have technological shifts, if they make technological changes. [36:50] What do you think other platforms [36:54] best practices would be to change and have humans verify. [36:59] Verified. [37:00] Again, with other platforms, I think they have a different model. [37:03] And... [37:05] So [37:06] I think they may have different approaches or levels of care. [37:11] For us, our product is people. [37:13] Like our product is people in conversation and authenticity and community. And community doesn't happen without people. [37:20] So for us, [37:22] It really is an existential issue.

[37:25] The assumption is when you're on Reddit, you should be interacting with other people. [37:28] I know Alex, Tools for Humanity is a cool company. They do World ID. [37:34] Um, [37:36] I think that... [37:38] the... [37:40] we're going down this route of human verification. [37:43] And we need to do so in a way that also preserves our users' [37:46] privacy. [37:48] So, [37:49] um [37:50] I think World is interesting. I think services like that are interesting. [37:53] Because a third party service to verify, like, are you a human? [37:56] Or maybe, you know, maybe you're where you are, what country you're in. [38:00] or your age. Those are kind of the three things that are really important to us, from kind of a safety point of view. [38:06] But we don't want to know your name. [38:08] We don't want to know your address. [38:10] Because on Reddit, [38:12] The anonymity is safety. [38:14] It's a big misconception. [38:16] People think anonymity equals lack of safety. [38:19] um [38:20] as just real world platforms [38:23] with bad behavior don't exist. [38:26] There's plenty of platforms with real world identities and lots of bad behavior. [38:30] What incentivizes good or bad behavior [38:32] is I think the context. [38:34] So the Reddit communities create this context for overall good behavior. [38:37] Thank you. [38:40] But I think [38:42] You know, if we had gone to our users, [38:45] three years ago, pre-AI, and so we're going down this human verification route. They'd be really upset. [38:50] Because... [38:51] It feels so. [38:53] Yeah.

[38:55] such a potential risk to privacy. [38:58] Now it's something they actually want. [39:00] They want to know [39:02] that Reddit is doing everything it can to preserve Reddit. [39:04] the humanness of Reddit. [39:06] And so I think [39:07] Third-party systems. [39:09] for verifying [39:11] You know, humanness in different ways are really important. [39:14] So, [39:15] Tools for Humanity/World is one. [39:17] Um, [39:19] That one's nice because it's [39:20] third party [39:22] unique [39:24] unique identity per person. [39:26] but we get no piece of information about the person. [39:30] Um, [39:31] There's others we use that actually check your ID. [39:33] I don't love those, but we're compelled or coerced to use them by various governments. [39:39] And then there's Face ID and Touch ID. [39:40] Just like built into the phone. [39:42] What I didn't appreciate about Face ID and Touch ID [39:47] or other 2FA like YubiKey, things like that, does actually require a physical presence to use them. [39:53] So there has to be a human holding it to use it. [39:56] So for many of our use cases, that's human enough. [39:59] But our design of these things [40:02] Is that you... [40:03] It's not-- Reddit doesn't do the verifying. [40:06] In fact, [40:07] the way we want to implement these things is you actually kind of leave the app. [40:10] and then come back. So it's very clear you're in a different... [40:13] You're on a different app, you're on a different website. [40:16] And then all Reddit gets back is like a token. [40:18] That says they passed. [40:19] So then we never know who you are. [40:22] just that you passed this test. [40:24] I think that that's a model that will work very well for us. You're a human, but we don't know anything else about you.

[40:29] then we can preserve the humanness, but also the privacy and the safety. [40:33] And [40:34] through the different generations of social media and media in general. We've gone through things like forums. We've gone through different social feeds, mobile. Now we're having different algorithms and AI. What have your biggest learnings through those different waves been? [40:51] And how has Reddit endured? [40:53] So [40:56] The things that are important to Reddit, we've talked about. [40:59] its communities, its authenticity. [41:03] It's... [41:04] you know, alongside those things, maybe being stubborn. [41:08] not making changes too quickly. [41:11] But the UI, the pixels, the formats, the platforms, [41:18] That's all for grabs. Those things evolve. [41:21] So I think what we've been able to do is evolve on the things that matter. [41:25] like the platforms, move to mobile, the style has changed, support more content. Like Reddit used to be only links. [41:32] Right now it's links and texts and images and video and [41:35] um [41:36] We don't have audio yet. I'd love to have audio. [41:39] Um, [41:41] But the community is the authenticity. [41:44] the voting, the human poweredness, [41:46] Even where Reddit has algorithms, [41:48] Um... [41:49] at the end of the day, [41:51] Nothing can become popular on Reddit. [41:54] without a community of people, [41:56] within the context of their values, [41:59] voting on it and making it popular.

[42:01] Those are the qualities of Reddit we protect. [42:04] But then we have to discontinue to evolve. And we will. [42:07] you know, we have and will continue to do so. So I think it's being stubborn about the right things, but [42:11] otherwise evolving on almost everything else. [42:15] What have you learned about human behavior? [42:17] What's interesting about Reddit is [42:19] is you don't get famous in the real world for being good at Reddit. [42:24] um, [42:25] You might become infamous once in a while. [42:27] You don't become rich by being good at Reddit. [42:30] So, [42:31] Which is not true on social media. You can become rich and famous by being good at social media. [42:36] And so I think the insights of social media [42:38] often [42:40] cause people to behave in a way [42:42] That's not true to themselves. [42:44] You're incentivized, for example, to say extreme things. [42:47] Something also funny. [42:48] Social media is very funny. [42:50] But then it also can be very extreme. [42:52] And people say things [42:53] that they may not believe, just to get credit for saying it. [42:57] Reddit doesn't do that. [42:59] And so I think that [43:01] Those sorts of incentives are what's really important. [43:05] Um, and [43:07] and keep Reddit Reddit. [43:09] Speaking on the business side, how do you track metrics for Reddit? Like what are the success metrics? Like how do you... [43:17] keep on seeing the puck move forward? - So I think with metrics, there's always the number and the story. [43:23] And now when I ask teams, when they set goals, actually I want both, the number and the story. [43:28] So what are the numbers we care about? We care about DAU. [43:31] Daily active users, how many people are actually using the platform?

[43:34] We care about revenue. [43:35] But, [43:37] There's a healthy way to use the platform. There's a healthy way, a sustainable way to grow. [43:40] And there's unsustainable ways. [43:42] Same with dollars. There's easy dollars and there's, you know, [43:45] maybe harder, but [43:47] more resilient dollars. [43:50] And so... [43:51] Yeah, we have goals for growing users, for growing revenue. [43:54] But we also have our mission. [43:57] which is to empower communities and make their knowledge accessible. [44:00] Um, [44:01] We also have [44:03] you know, [44:04] sub goals around you know reddit's the de facto place for communities online [44:08] Reddit's safe and fun. [44:11] um, [44:12] and [44:15] So we both try to hit the numbers, but also within [44:18] the guidelines [44:21] of the story. [44:22] and try to do things the right way. [44:25] And I think that can be harder. [44:26] If you're only focused on numbers, [44:29] I think you risk... [44:31] Um, [44:33] losing what's important. [44:35] And then now you're kind of a slave to the numbers. But you can't ignore the numbers either. [44:40] or then you're not going to make any progress. [44:42] And so I think both are really important, the number and the story. [44:46] Yeah. [44:46] I think you're being a little humble, but you have some really big numbers. Well, it helps that the ads work. [44:53] So... [44:54] Last time I checked, you have 121 million daily active uniques, 471 million weekly active uniques, [45:01] About 100K active communities, 24 billion posts and comments, and last year reached up to 2.2 billion in annual revenue, which was up 69%.

[45:14] Is that good? That's pretty good. Great. [45:17] And what was it? It was when you joined in 2015, you're at 12 million in revenue. So we went from 12 million in revenue in 2015. [45:27] Rejoined. To 2025 of $2.2 billion. Did you think that was going to happen? In 2015, I did not think that was going to happen because I didn't think... [45:40] more than maybe a week ahead. [45:43] We were... [45:45] So in the present then. [45:48] So in the present, just trying to save the company, turn the company around. [45:52] So [45:53] No, I did not think that was going to happen. [45:55] um [45:57] and [45:59] You know, we've found our, it took a while to find our voice on the business side. [46:04] Turns out, I mean, turns out ads is great. [46:06] Ads as a business model. This is coming from the person. I told you I didn't like ads. [46:12] Add scales. [46:13] So it's a business model that scales with usage. So it's very healthy there. [46:18] And it turns out it's a business model that's aligned with just what people talk about, which is what Reddit is. [46:23] And so [46:24] There's a natural fit. [46:26] I think one of the most important things we did, so my partner in running Reddit is Jen Wong. [46:31] She joined us. She's our COO. She joined us in 2018. [46:36] And [46:37] One of the biggest decisions we made around then was we were going to invest in our own ad tech. [46:43] So our own ad server, our own tracking, our own measurement, all of this.

[46:47] We were small. [46:49] to do that. [46:50] And we moved off of programmatic. [46:53] So most websites [46:54] Our platform is smaller than Reddit. We use some ad network. [46:57] um [46:59] So somebody else sells your ads for you, you just basically, and you split it. [47:03] So you give them the inventory, they sell it, you take a rev share. [47:06] We said... [47:08] As a matter of strategy, we want to own the relationship with our customer. [47:12] And we can't do that unless we have our own ad tech. So we made that investment. [47:16] and [47:18] in the process of selling and explaining Reddit, [47:22] We learned [47:25] that [47:26] Reddit is actually driving a lot of purchasing decisions. [47:30] And so it just happened that our product is a natural fit. [47:35] I feel very fortunate for that because when we started Reddit, we weren't thinking about that. [47:39] um, [47:40] Nor, I mean, maybe on Reddit people weren't even talking about that. It just turns out like, [47:44] There's such a question. [47:46] behind every hobby. [47:47] Like what's the funnest thing you do when you take up a new hobby? [47:50] It's like buying all the new stuff. [47:51] I got all the new gear. [47:53] um [47:55] And so there's just some natural alignment there. And we've been able to, I think, navigate that in a way that doesn't come at the expense of our communities, and sometimes is even additive. [48:04] Um, and then also I think make smart strategic decisions, like invest in our own tack and own the relationship and build a sales force, all of these things. [48:13] you know, are [48:15] you know, smaller scale companies [48:17] Many don't build their own sales force and they don't build their own tech.

[48:20] um [48:21] And it's worked out for us. [48:24] Another part of performance besides metrics and tracking all the business stuff that I lean into a lot is who you surround yourself with. One of our sponsors is Brex and they're all about performance. So... [48:34] For me, I believe performance is a metric of who you surround yourself with and who you're inspired by, who you keep around. [48:41] Who is that for you? Do you have a mentor? Have you had someone that you've kind of like stuck as your North Star? Hmm. [48:48] Um, [48:50] I have... [48:51] Lots of... [48:53] I have lots of friends who [48:56] meet that description. [48:58] But they're also really, really private, so I'm not going to name check them. [49:03] But yeah, I have a number of close friends. [49:06] some of whom were investors in Reddit over the years, [49:09] who I just think are very, very high integrity [49:13] very consistent, give good advice. I mean, Jen, Jen, our COO is one of those people. [49:18] um [49:20] who-- you know, funny thing about being a founder CEO [49:23] is [49:24] It's a job you inherit. [49:26] and you have to earn. [49:27] So then you end up hiring people, especially as you scale, [49:30] who [49:31] have [49:33] who actually have worked their way up. [49:36] to be execs at public companies. [49:40] And so Jan, our COO, Drew, our CFO, [49:44] um, [49:45] both much more experienced than me. [49:47] um, [49:48] I've learned a lot from them.

[49:50] um [49:52] And then I learn a lot [49:55] from people I don't know. [49:57] For example, I think [49:59] Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger. [50:02] the founders of Berkshire Hathaway, [50:05] Um, [50:08] obviously two of the most successful investors, business guys of all time. [50:14] they're just so stubborn about their principles. [50:19] and both in investing and in life. [50:21] And so, and I think that's a great example of you can be very, very successful without being an asshole. [50:28] um, [50:29] And so I think there's folks like that [50:32] when we were preparing to go public, [50:34] a person I called [50:36] a number of times with Rich Barton, [50:38] He was the founder, CEO of Expedia, [50:40] than Zillow, than Glassdoor. [50:43] And he had a lot of really good advice for me on [50:47] whether to go public? His answer was yes. Like, do you want to ever play in the big leagues or do you want to stay in the minor leagues forever? And he also asked me some [50:55] Good question. I said, should we go public? He's like, well, what did you tell your investors you were going to do? [51:00] Well, I said, you know, we're going to go public someday. [51:03] It's like, well, then you should probably do that. [51:05] And he also put that idea in my head that we opened a conversation with. He's like, promise me one thing, Steve. You take a company public... [51:13] Don't be one of those CEOs who spends the rest of their career bitching about it. [51:16] Just say thank you. [51:18] That was great advice. [51:19] And so that's how I try to

[51:21] Think about it now. [51:22] Okay, so we're strolling the halls of Reddit San Francisco. [51:27] How many employees are in this office? Like right now? Yeah. [51:31] 25. 25? It's... we... okay, no, that's not true. On a normal day... [51:40] At this hour, probably 25. Because there's only on a normal day in San Francisco [51:45] we don't have a big office attendance. But I actually think there's an onsite going on right now. [51:49] So there might be [51:50] 50 or 100 here, but we don't have a return to office policy. [51:55] um [51:56] San Francisco is probably our quietest office, even though we have the most employees in the Bay Area. [52:01] But my... [52:02] I think I have this theory. My theory is that the median age of Reddit has always been about my age. [52:09] You're 26? Yeah. Yeah? Okay. [52:14] I was born in 1983. [52:16] Oh, wow. [52:17] Um... [52:18] I think during COVID, [52:20] Everybody had kids. [52:22] I had kids. [52:23] And then everybody moved out SF into the burbs. And then the commuting here is so brutal. I just don't have the heart to make new parents [52:34] Commute. [52:34] two hours a day when they want to see their kids. And [52:39] We are way more productive now than we were before COVID. [52:44] So, [52:45] you can't convince me that [52:47] Being in the office is the key to productivity. [52:50] Maybe it is, but I think it's like lever number 10.

[52:53] behind like having a consistent strategy and having good leaders. So it hasn't hurt us. [52:59] not forcing people to be here, [53:01] But people do come in. [53:02] And we asked teams to come together about once a quarter or so, like in person. [53:07] Do your planning, do your dinners, do your happy hours, do all that. So like one of that, there's an onsite going on here probably every other week. [53:14] But then every other week is [53:16] on the quiet side. [53:17] Okay, well that's not bad. How much has AI played a role in productivity and product development for Reddit? [53:26] I mean, it's really picking up. [53:29] It's such a moving target, but the tools are changing so fast. [53:34] Um... [53:35] I mean, my own experience, I'm a programmer, [53:38] Like that's my first love is programming. [53:40] So I've done it almost every day since I was a little kid. [53:43] Something happened in December. Not something happened. The new models came out in December. And I haven't [53:51] read, let alone written a line of code since December. [53:55] Wow. But I've produced so much more. [53:57] But I don't even, like, you know, the model, [54:00] Right now, I still think it's like you have your editor, like cursor or whatever, [54:05] You've got code and then AI on the side. [54:07] I don't even have an editor anymore. [54:09] It's just AI. [54:11] Um... [54:13] So anyway, suffice to say, it's changing really rapidly. Our bottleneck at Reddit right now is actually code review because we can produce so much code, but we've got to review it and deploy it. So we're still...

[54:24] you know, working through that. [54:26] challenge or the fun part is like, [54:28] I don't know what the tools are going to be in a month. [54:31] Like it's really evolving so fast. So I think you can't get married to any particular tool or way of working right now. And how does that change headcount? Are you imagining that's going to... [54:41] Decrease engineers. What is that gonna? No way. No way. We are we are a building company. Okay, and so I [54:49] In order for engineering headcount to go down, we'd have to [54:53] know everything we wanted to build. [54:55] So let's say AI makes our engineers 50, 100% or even 10x more productive. [55:00] We'll just build more stuff. [55:02] Like do more with more. [55:04] it's not do the same amount with less. [55:08] We just have a lot of work to do. And if we're not doing more with more, our competitors are. [55:12] So, [55:13] I think there are maybe areas... [55:16] like our GNA. [55:17] So non-engineering, that's been flat the last couple of years. So we can scale those teams. [55:23] But the building teams? [55:25] we're builders. And if we can use AI to build more, we'll definitely use AI to build more. That's what we're doing. How does this impact entry-level jobs? That's everyone's biggest concern. Oh, so [55:36] The kids coming out of college right now learned how to program with AI. [55:41] they're really good at it. And so I think [55:45] We will go heavy on new grads. [55:48] because they're so much more AI native. It's the old people like me. It's like, I didn't want to give it up. I finally did. Like the models got good enough. But that's like my craft. It's my hobby. It's my first love. I don't want to like not write code anymore.

[56:00] Bye. [56:01] The younger people don't have that package. [56:03] They just write with AI. [56:06] And so, [56:08] And I think there's so many reasons to hire new grads. [56:11] the best [56:12] New grads? [56:15] Like if you don't hire them as new grads, you will never see them. [56:18] they will never be on the job market again. They're too valuable to ever let them be on the job market. So if you don't hire them when they're young, [56:25] You will never see them. [56:26] Or if you do, they're 100x more expensive. So you got to [56:31] Gotta get 'em right out of the gate. [56:34] My brother is a Reddit super fan. [56:37] He... We're good with brothers. Yeah, he he is an active user. One of the, what is it, like 471 weekly active uniques. But okay, so... There's probably five of them, but yeah. Maybe. So Reddit's been around for 20 years. My brother Colin had... [56:54] a pressing question he really wanted to ask. What is the next 20 years going to look like for Reddit? [57:01] 20 years, [57:02] everything's going to change. If we look back on the last 20 years, [57:06] Like the format changes, the pixels change, how you discover Reddit, a lot of those mechanics have evolved. [57:13] What's not going to change is the core of Reddit, which is [57:17] communities, [57:19] that hold conversations, right? It's communities of people talking about things they care about, voting, user submission, [57:27] that users do everything interesting about Reddit. [57:29] That is Reddit.

[57:31] But [57:32] Everything else has to evolve. You know, it always does. Like 20 years is old and it's really, it's not just old on internet times. It's just old. So, um, and I look back at all the change we've been through and the next 20 years are probably going to be even more accelerated. [57:48] What's the biggest lesson you've learned? [57:50] as a leader. [57:52] Like the same way that Reddit's the world's greatest bullshit detector, it's like not, Reddit's not special in that regard. [57:58] people can [58:00] feel authenticity. And so I think as a leader, you have to be authentic. And so that means, say what you believe, be clear about what you care about. [58:10] And that means sometimes you're saying things people don't want to hear. [58:13] Um, [58:15] That means sometimes maybe you're [58:16] stubborn about a particular value or principle. [58:19] But I think that sort of consistency and directness [58:22] is really important because that builds trust. And people won't do anything [58:27] Certainly they won't. [58:29] They won't follow you. [58:30] if they don't trust you. [58:32] And so you have to be [58:34] You have to be consistent and authentic and [58:38] I think sometimes that's hard to do because there's a natural [58:41] tendency to tell people what they want to hear. [58:44] But that, [58:46] that [58:47] That's a short-term strategy that doesn't work. [58:50] What is behind your head? [58:53] Ah, this is the band hammer. [58:55] This was made to the woodworking community, the woodworking subreddit, which I love. I'm not a woodworker, but it's one of my favorite things to do on Reddit is just spy on other people's hobbies. So for some reason, I get a lot of woodworking content. But this community made...

[59:09] They made like six band hammers. [59:11] And they gave they gave us one. They also made one. I think one of the other owners of a band hammer is [59:18] Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh, my God. Got one of the other ones. So, yeah, this was made by the woodworking community and given to us. You're going to need a picture with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I've been messaging him. He hasn't responded. He hasn't responded? Yeah. All right. Arnold. [59:30] We need a picture. [59:33] I think there is a picture of him with his band hammer. No, with you. Yeah, not with me. Okay. But, you know, Arnold's band hammer is pretty cool. Okay. That's pretty cool. Lastly, is there anything in this office that we should see or know before we go? Well, we got up with the band hammer. Um... [59:49] - You know, I don't know. - Do you have a secret meditation corner? Like what's the lore here? - The lore? - Yeah. - It's an office in San Francisco. Okay, our old office had lore. Our old office was NBC's headquarters. So like famous bands used to play there and there's a secret tunnel to the hotel next door. - Oh my God. - But this is just an office. It's a beautiful office. - It's a special office. - Yeah, but the soul is what's inside. The soul is all of these people and, and, and, [1:00:14] empty desks. Amazing. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, sorcery.bc, where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery today. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen. Link in description to sign up.