Crypto State of the Union | Jacquelyn Melinek, senior crypto reporter at TechCrunch

[00:00] Anytime I've done a thread on Twitter, it's performed really poorly and it's made me feel bad. So, but maybe this is like truer to your authentic self. So we'll do better. Maybe, you know. [00:10] Welcome to Boys Club Interviews. This is a show where we bring on people much smarter than us to talk about the new internet. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No, just Boys Club. [00:27] Hello. How you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Headed to Paris tomorrow. I'm [00:33] Looking forward to that. How are you? Good. Really good. Just got the Boys Do Barbie. [00:39] Invite out. [00:40] Boys do Barbie. [00:42] We are very excited about this. We're doing a private screening of the new Barbie. [00:49] Opening weekend, I think, or like opening week, Nighthawk Cinema in Williamsburg. [00:55] It's going to be a blast. We bought out the cinema. [00:57] For the boys. [00:58] It's going to be so fun. Huge shout out to console.xyz for coming in on this party with us on this Barbie party. [01:07] We're really excited about them. They've been so wonderful. And definitely check out console.xyz. Their chat for Web3. So if you're a community looking for a better way... [01:18] to do stuff like chat online, check them out. Link in show notes. And the founder, Chris, is just the nicest guy in the world. Go check them out. And more importantly, come to Barbie. If you're in New York, we will have the invite in the show notes as well.

[01:31] Come hang. We'll have popcorn. We'll watch Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie, and it'll be a really good time. So who did we have on the show today? We had Jacqueline Melanick on the show. Jacqueline is a senior crypto reporter at TechCrunch. She's very funny. She's very funny. [01:48] very funny and in real life. Yeah. She's a good time. She's a really good time. She's a good time. We had her on just as someone who covers crypto all day and all night. We thought it would be interesting to have a chat with her about sort of the state of the union, get her perspective on trends and different things that are happening and from a lens of media and also from the lens of someone who sits across a lot of different stories that are happening day in and day [02:18] her balanced perspective. Like she's very fair. I feel like she has a very fair perspective and covering an industry like [02:28] crypto where there's a lot of nuance and you got to come at it with that sense of balance. Yes. Just had a great time with Jacqueline. Grateful for her taking the time with us. And we hope you like it. Hey, Natasha, if someone wants to get into crypto or is looking for a better way to trade, where should they go? Oh, Dina, I'm so glad you asked. The place to be is Kraken. It's more than a crypto platform. Kraken is your bridge to the new world of finance, [02:58] with a redesigned trading interface that's so easy to use. From degen to day trader, first timer to full timer, make your trades in just a few clicks. Go to kraken.com backslash boys club, sign up in just a few minutes, and you can even get started with as little as $10. We love you, Kraken.

[03:15] Okay, on today's show, we have Jacqueline Melanick. She is the senior crypto reporter at TechCrunch and host of the award-nominated Chain Reaction podcast. Jacqueline is also the winner of Boys Club Trivia Night, which is a huge accolade, huge credential. Welcome to the show, Jacqueline. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And honestly, that was one of the best nights. I think our team [03:45] say I came up with the name by myself, but I definitely embraced it. I was so impressed and inspired by the level of [03:53] of competitiveness that came through. I really thought like this is going to be a really chill trivia night. People are just going to like have fun, meet new people. And the moment it started, I was like, wow, a lot of alpha in the room. People are serious about this. I will say I'm not like a pop culture expert, but you know, it's my job to cover cryptos. You took the crown. Thank you. Yeah. Hopefully next time I can do. So Jacqueline, we're a big fan of yours. [04:23] I'd love to just get to know you a little bit more, [04:27] How did you get into crypto? What's your journey been? Would love to get some context. [04:33] Yeah, for sure. So I've been covering crypto for over two years now, I think. I've been like interested in this space for [04:40] Longer than that, probably double the time prior to covering crypto, I was covering energy markets.

[04:45] I started out covering oil trading at Bloomberg in an internship. They put me on the oil trading desk. I knew nothing about it. And then from there, I went to cover. What is oil trading? What are we talking about there? Are we just like barrel prices? Is that what we're doing? Yeah, like literally WTI futures for oil. I was focused on the America's market. It wasn't sexy, but there is a big market for it. Like there are people who their whole lives is surrounded by energy. [05:12] And then from there, I worked for S&P Global, covering energy for them too. [05:16] I was based in Houston, Texas, and I'm originally from New York. I'm back in New York. [05:20] And I wanted to move [05:22] back to New York and this was during COVID and [05:26] The company basically was like, no, we want you to stay down here. And I was like, okay, well, I'm not obsessed with energy. [05:31] I want to find a new job. [05:32] So I was between a job covering asset management at a really big [05:36] financial publication, I'm not going to name them because they're great. And then another one covering crypto at, at was once a very small crypto news startup, Blockworks. [05:47] And now they're really big and they're doing great. [05:50] But I think I was like there-- [05:51] fourth or fifth crypto reporter they hired and I just took a bet on it. Yeah. That's awesome. And yeah, that's kind of how it all evolved from there. You saying I was put on the energy desk and I knew nothing about it reminds me of me starting Boys Club. Yeah. Put myself on the desk and knew nothing about it. So it's comforting to hear. Did your interest in crypto really come out of reporting about it or where did that like initial spark or jump into the space happen for you?

[06:19] Yeah, that's, [06:20] That's a good question. I think you probably noticed. I said, "Oh, I started covering it, but I knew about it for double the time." [06:26] Shout out to my ex. He was into crypto. [06:29] And so like the boyfriend, yeah, the ex-boyfriend, he had it. [06:34] And when we were back in college, I remember like Spectator Index. I don't know if you guys follow them on Twitter, but sometimes they would tweet like, [06:41] Bitcoin price today, Bitcoin price a year ago. And every time I see those tweets, I'd look and I'd be like, [06:47] Are you up? Like, are you making money? You know? And he would always be like, either yes or no, or I'm breaking even. And I never understood what he was talking about. [06:55] So I started looking into it myself. [06:57] And I found it super interesting. And yeah, I just kind of dove into books, podcasts. That's how I found out about Boys Club initially, through the Bankless podcast. You know, like, you just got to dive into the research. [07:08] Learn yourself. Nice. We love a social onboarding moment, whatever it takes, even if it's a boyfriend crypto pilling. I think that that's that's great. It's been crazy few months, a year, dare I say, in this industry. We're in a moment for sure. Even just today, the news, we're recording this on Thursday. [07:27] morning. [07:28] tons of [07:29] Stories Distrapped about Celsius and Ripple, just like it's a barrage, I'd say, of happenings all the time. I'm curious, sort of just zooming out. It's July 2023. What do you feel like is really defining this moment for... [07:44] for the industry right now, how would you define the trends? [07:48] I think the biggest thing right now is regulation. I don't know if I'd call that a trend more so...

[07:54] something that everyone's focused on, everyone's talking about. I'm writing about 24/7. And even today, as you mentioned, the situation with Celsius and Ripple, I know this will come out next week, [08:03] But it's a constant reminder that the US government is looking into this. They're quote unquote cracking down on it, if that's how you want to look at it. [08:11] And there needs to be clear guidelines in order to make this space move forward and be successful. [08:17] compared to other global markets. [08:19] As for trends I'm personally looking at, and I think that's defining the industry or could in the future. I don't have a crystal ball. This is not advice. But this is based off what I think has promised for mainstream adoption. And I would say that would go down to gaming and within that, NFTs. Gaming has the potential to bring in a lot of blockchain technology, whether or not we know we're using it. [08:42] similar to the way I use Uber, and I have no idea how Uber works. I just press a button and I get my car. [08:48] I think gaming will be the same way where it's like you buy [08:51] skins or an asset and you don't really know it's an NFT, [08:55] but you own it and suddenly you now understand how crypto assets work. And in the same sense, I think NFTs have a lot of potential potential [09:04] beyond like the silly PFPs that [09:07] were once worth millions of dollars and now worth nothing. There's so much potential for NFTs to get mainstream adoption through [09:14] Mortgages, healthcare, even like vintage designer goods. [09:19] That's something I'm personally interested in. I like to buy vintage bags, and a big thing for me is

[09:24] Is it real or not? [09:25] And if there was an NFT that could prove that, [09:28] I think that would be a game changer. That's just something that we haven't seen a ton of yet. [09:32] But I think that could define the industry down the line. Yeah. Made really bullish on the last piece around sort of like this authenticity around physical goods. And we actually just talked about on the podcast from last week. [09:47] about Dior's drop and there being this chip within it that allows you to track where it was sourced, where it was made, and that being a way for people to prove authenticity of these luxury goods, which I personally am really excited about and feel like is exactly a use case that is obfuscating away Web3 and blockchain, but provides a lot of utility for people. On the regulatory piece, what do you think it's going to take for the US to get to a point where people are comfortable working in crypto, people are excited about this industry, [10:17] feel a fear around innovation in the space or working at these different exchanges or whatever it may be. [10:22] There needs to be cohesion, and the US government is very well known for having many different groups, so it's hard to get one [10:31] clear answer even with the Ripple situation. So for those who don't know, maybe you will, [10:38] at this point but ripple got sued by the sec back in 2020 for allegedly offering unregistered securities [10:46] which was their XRP token. [10:48] And today, the SDNY judge ruled that the XRP token is not a security token.

[10:54] if I think it's through the direct sale of it, [10:57] But then it is a security if it's through like the institutional sale. - Oh God. - You might wanna check that. But, 'cause I literally just read that before I jumped on this. But the crazy part about all of this is that [11:08] The SDNY is saying one thing and then the SEC is saying another. [11:12] And it's like, who do you believe? [11:14] What do you follow? Especially if you're a company that has a token, how do you navigate that? [11:18] when you're hearing two things and you're being pulled one way or another. And I talked to so many founders about this. [11:25] situation in the US because a lot of the founders I speak to are American based because I mainly cover the American market and [11:31] And they're all kind of like [11:32] stuck in a corner, they don't know what to do, they don't wanna leave the US, 'cause this is where they're from, this is where they built their company, this is where their investors came from, everything. [11:41] And yet, [11:42] they feel like maybe they have to in order to keep [11:45] their dream alive and these people [11:47] For the most part, I think I have a good read on a lot of founders. [11:50] These people aren't malicious characters. You know, they're not bad actors like we've seen... [11:55] with Celsius and maybe Terra Luna or FTX. Yes, those were extreme cases, but these are just [12:01] small devs creating startups and have a dream. [12:04] So it's kind of crazy to watch. [12:06] Crypto, it's obviously your beat. [12:09] I'd say [12:10] that [12:11] mainstream media, excluding industry press, has not been very friendly to crypto lately. Do you think that's fair? [12:21] And... [12:22] How do you think that narrative... [12:24] can be changed.

[12:25] going into a new sort of market cycle. [12:28] Because I think it needs to be. But I'm curious from your vantage point, what you think it will take. [12:32] So I think the crypto reporter... [12:36] role has kind of evolved over time. I feel like when I first started covering this space back in [12:42] What was it? 2021? 20? Yeah, it was about 2021. [12:46] They were like, [12:47] only crypto reporters within crypto news publications. [12:52] So like Blockworks, Coindesk, Cointelegraph, The Block, things like that. And then it felt like... [12:58] At that time, we saw Financial Times, Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal, [13:03] starting to cover it [13:05] or they would just have their [13:07] FinTech reporters, our financial reporters cover crypto. [13:10] Be like, hey, [13:11] Go cover this. [13:12] That's how it felt as someone who covers it 24/7. [13:16] Reading the work that some publications put out, it was like Bitcoin plummets 5%. And you're like, that's not a plummet. Okay. Let me show you a plummet. No, yeah. They don't know what they're talking about. And like maybe in financial terms, that could be massive for something else. [13:31] For another market. But for Bitcoin, 5% is like candy. For oil. For your oil market. Maybe for oil. It's been a while, so I don't know what's going on there. But nowadays... [13:41] Fast forward like two and a half years. [13:44] There are more crypto specific reporters at these mainstream publications, so I think they're getting it right. [13:49] But then again, you got to think about who's above us. [13:53] And I'm not saying this about TechCrunch, but I'm saying in general, I speak to a lot of reporters because I have...

[13:59] reporter friends, of course, [14:00] And like a lot of it comes down to just old school people not understanding crypto. [14:05] and saying like, [14:07] Even if it's positive news, you have to put like a skeptical spin on it or that. [14:12] I don't know if this is really the best thing. And even if it is good news, they might still, you know, [14:16] excuse my language, but like shit on it. [14:19] And that's not, I don't, that doesn't speak for everyone, disclaimer, but like I think that might be where you're seeing some of the negative coverage come from because [14:27] Some people just inherently have bias against it. [14:31] As someone covering the space, I see it all the time. I like to think I'm neutral. [14:35] maybe a little neutral positive because you know there are some people that I do see doing genuinely good work [14:40] But then I see really bad actors, so of course you have to cover that in a negative light too. I think it's like constant seesaw of being fair and impartial. [14:48] But then there are people who have their opinions and [14:52] especially if they're not 100% in covering the space. [14:55] they're gonna come with [14:56] some bias when it comes to reporting on it. - Yeah, where do you think the anti-crypto agenda comes from? [15:04] Like, what do you think the root of that is? [15:05] If you had to guess. I think... [15:07] scams, fraud. Yeah. You know, like... [15:10] It's hard to watch millions, if not billions of... It is billions of dollars get lost. Yeah. [15:16] in this ecosystem and seeing innocent people who put their savings in [15:20] lose everything. [15:21] I know it's heart crushing for me to watch too. [15:24] And I think this isn't independent. [15:27] to crypto. We see this across all industries.

[15:30] But because it's a new industry, [15:32] Everything started kind of with the Silk Road early on. [15:36] Some people still think about crypto as the Silk Road. I know that's how I first heard about it like 10 years ago. [15:42] And obviously like [15:43] I've known it has evolved beyond that, but for people not knowing about this space, they might just see it as the Silk Road, a place full of scams, people who are trying to get rich quick. [15:52] And [15:53] Unless they really dive into it. That's true. Yeah. [15:56] They both can exist. Yeah. [15:58] Totally unfortunately, I think that one one thing that's been coming up for me is that I [16:02] I got into this [16:03] industry in 2017 and at 2017, [16:06] I mean, it was the tail end of that last bull run and it was hysteria, whatever. But when I would talk to my normal friends... [16:13] people just didn't really know what crypto was. Like they had maybe heard about Bitcoin once or twice, but they were, for the most part, not [16:19] present to what it was or had no experience of it. And it wasn't like coming into their, [16:24] media [16:26] in any way. And I'd say that now in 2023, that's completely changed where everyone has, [16:33] heard of crypto and everyone has had various experiences with it. My normal friends I'm talking about, not my crypto friends. [16:40] Now, for the most part, their view of it is [16:43] just entirely negative because of what's happened over the past year and a half. And I say that the sort of NFT stuff, some of the, um, [16:51] I'd say like poor taste NFT stuff has been [16:55] tainted a lot of the views of [16:57] normal people on this industry. And I love how you keep saying normal people. That's how I refer to him to my normal friend. Yeah.

[17:06] There's normal and then there's other. And then there's my crypto friends. Yeah. As I'm thinking about like, okay, what's this next market? [17:15] cycle going to look like, what's going to be the catalysts, how is everything going to shift? [17:21] I'm really concerned about this now public perception of crypto being this toxic thing, especially in [17:29] amongst millennials and Gen Z, it's cringey. And that's really hard to change that public perception. And [17:36] I think it stems from some of the mainstream... [17:39] media reporting of it, which to your point is like also totally fair in some of the ways that they've covered it. But [17:45] I'm wondering if you have that experience too, and if that lands for you. [17:49] Yeah, I definitely think the NFT hype [17:52] got a lot of mainstream attention from our quote unquote "normie" friends. Love them. But it also wasn't the best attention ever. [18:01] honestly gave NFT like a negative connotation. [18:04] Because now nobody wants to buy an NFT, but the second you call it a digital collectible, someone might consider it. [18:11] And I think [18:12] terminology is a big thing. [18:14] into getting adoption. [18:16] But... [18:17] We have to just make it more accessible. [18:19] and I really try to make my writing accessible [18:23] And I know my podcast is more for a crypto native audience. [18:27] because the things we talk about it on our, [18:29] pretty, you know, crypto-focused, but [18:32] I'm hoping that if someone were to read my reporting, they could read it and understand what I'm talking about.

[18:38] I think accessibility is the biggest thing in this industry that needs to be fixed. [18:42] both for user experience and understanding terminology, [18:46] because [18:47] It just... [18:48] It has to be more accessible, I don't know. [18:50] Yeah. I harp on that. [18:51] I totally agree with you. Okay, so switching gears a little bit, what is... [18:56] One of the most surprising pitches you've received lately. I can't imagine being a reporter. I truly cannot imagine people coming into the inbox with all sorts of crazy things. So very excited to hear what you've been getting. [19:07] Yeah. [19:08] So I get hundreds of pitches every day. I'll be honest. - Oh my gosh, really? [19:13] insane. [19:14] It's insane. [19:15] Honestly, looking at my email, I don't have anxiety, thank God. But looking at my email gives me anxiety every time I look at it. And I'm an inbox zero type of person. So I need to get through all of them. Wow, that's wild. So if I don't answer your emails, that's fine. But so out of all those pitches, I tend to really like know what's good or what's not good for my coverage. With that said, I'm... [19:38] One of the pitches I received recently was about a company that was hacked of hundreds of millions of dollars. [19:44] and they reached out for an interview. [19:46] Typically, I would say, [19:50] When things are hacked, the companies don't want to talk about it. So the fact that they want to sit down and talk with me [19:56] I think that's a super interesting pitch, and I definitely took him up on that, and we're going to talk next week. [20:01] And it's hopefully it'll be like a lesson learned story. [20:05] And I think it's so important for people to embrace their failures or shortcomings and

[20:11] I feel like so many times when we see things fail or just not even become successful, not even have to fail, they just didn't do well. It's brushed under the rug. And I feel like. [20:21] If more companies talked about their failures, so many others can learn from that, especially in the crypto world. [20:27] And yeah, so I'm excited to do that one. I think that was a really surprising pitch because [20:32] Why would they want to talk about that? So I have to look at it from like, [20:37] Okay, a little skepticism, like why do you want to talk to me, but also this is a good... [20:42] - That's a good catch. - Wow. - Juicy. - Can't wait, can't wait to learn more. - Okay, so we just have a couple minutes left here. [20:50] I want to do a quick fire smasher pass. [20:54] uh, game with you, Jacqueline. So smash or pass quick fire round. Um, [21:00] just [21:01] first thing that comes to your mind they're not people they're not people they're not people they're not people okay these are all corporate entities or similar so uh yeah it's not literally it's just is your vibe positive is your vibe pass so we'll start with some decentralized social just we've been covering that a lot on the podcast and talking about that a lot so [21:22] We'll start Blue Sky. [21:23] Smasher Pass. [21:25] Pass. [21:26] I haven't. [21:27] Yeah, agreed. It's not my thing. I'm aligned on that. [21:31] Okay, Farcaster or Warpcaster, I don't know which one they're going by these days, but... [21:36] Not too big on it, so pass. [21:39] Great, great. Okay, sort of hot takes on decentralized social. Same feeling for Len's?

[21:45] No, Smash. Oh, okay. Tell us why. I like Lens. [21:49] I... [21:51] I've spoken to Stani a number of times, and I find Lens super interesting. [21:55] I think, you know, Lens and Farcaster are similar. I think I just have a closer [21:59] look at lens. And I think there's a lot of potential there. There's a lot of good investors and people building on it. [22:05] So. [22:06] Tony is the [22:07] Kindest man in crypto, I think. He's such a gem. [22:11] We love them. - Yeah, for sure. [22:14] POAP [22:15] Smash. [22:16] I like a good fill-up. [22:17] Nice, nice, great. Okay, so... [22:21] Dows. [22:24] Smash [22:26] Just because you're here? No, I think there's so much potential there, but not everyone does it correctly. And I think the term is misused sometimes. Yes. Like smash. Like I. [22:37] I do like them, but I think some people just say they're a doubt when they're not. [22:41] Yeah. [22:41] Totally. Natasha, smash or pass on Dallas? [22:44] For you. [22:46] it's it's day by day day by day moment by moment depends depends on the day on the mood [22:53] Yeah. Okay, last one. Threads. [22:57] Smash or pass. [22:58] What? [22:59] Threads. [23:00] Oh, I thought you said spreads. Like on dishes? I'm like schmear. Spreads. Yeah, literally. [23:09] Pass. I mean, as much as Twitter gives me headaches, I'm a Twitter girl. [23:14] Yeah. These new Twitter adjacent type.

[23:16] networks are doing it for me. I've created the accounts, but like [23:20] Pass. Yeah. [23:21] I hear that. Okay. Last question here. You're an excellent follow on Twitter. Highly recommend Lincoln show note. Very funny. What is your favorite all time meme? And it can be a format, like a meme format. Yeah. I really love using Gary Gensler's face. He has like these ones and I don't know if the video is going to be shown here, but he has this one photo of him with a water bottle in his hand. He's like sipping it like a little like ant or like he always has his [23:51] grabs of that man and using it in like ridiculous ways. Oh, the Sopranos. [23:56] I don't know if you guys like The Sopranos, but I love that show. I'm in a rewatch moment right now. I'm in a rewatch moment, too. Yeah. Nice, nice. So, you know, I always love throwing that. Yeah. I saw an incredible tweet the other day that said... [24:09] Inside of what oh my gosh inside me. There are two wolves and it was a [24:13] to a picture of Carmen from Sopranos and Carmen from the bear and I was like this is so inside you there are two arms inside the inside me there are two arms yes yes yes yes I'm literally watching both of those right now but I think like the more unhinged the meme the better I don't know if people like my sense of humor sometimes I feel like the memes are so out there but I don't care [24:36] We're here for it. We love them all. So you keep sending them if you're not risking something and [24:41] then you're not being true to the format. It must be on the edge. You always got to be yourself, guys. Amazing. Okay, Jacqueline, I know you have a busy day of doing actual crypto reporting, so we'll let you go. But thank you so much for coming on. This was super fun. No, thank you for having me. This was great. Kraken is a crypto OG. They have more than 10 million clients around the world that trust them with their crypto needs. They're one of the largest crypto platforms out there with some of

[25:11] so you can rest easy that your funds and your privacy are safe for the keeping. And if you need help along the way, as we all do sometimes, Kraken's award-winning client support team is available 24-7 every day of the year. This is a true story. I've actually hit them up a few times with very dumb questions about our account, and they were so nice and so patient. It just takes a few minutes to get started today at kraken.com backslash boys club. [25:35] There's some draft tweets. [25:36] Let's do it. I'm struggling. I'm struggling for several reasons. [25:42] So a few months ago, [25:45] maybe almost a year ago now, my Instagram got hacked. [25:49] and deleted by big bad meta. They took it away. And it has been a blessing. [25:57] in many ways, because it has freed me [26:00] from... [26:02] constant content creation [26:05] around my life. [26:07] Personal content creation. Personal content creation. Yes, I am shackled. [26:11] to Boys Club in terms of content creation. [26:15] And I have noticed I've been on vacation and I've noticed like, I don't need to take a picture of everything. I can just enjoy everything. [26:22] The moment. [26:23] Nice. [26:24] Yes. However, the moments that I do want to take a picture of, the quality... [26:29] of the content is exceptional. It is [26:33] beautiful. I'm like, oh, if I'm compelled to take an image, it's because it's [26:38] Creme de la creme. [26:40] Okay. Of what should be on the internet in terms of what you should be looking at. Okay. But I have nowhere for it to go.

[26:48] Okay. Besides my family group chat, which they don't really respond as meaningfully as the internet would. [26:54] Okay, you can put it on Twitter. That's what I'm trying to think about is can you post images on Twitter? [26:59] of your vacation. [27:01] I see people do it all the time. [27:03] I think that [27:05] you definitely can. [27:08] But should you? Right. That's the bigger question. That's the bigger question. I sort of want to do a roundup of where I've been. [27:17] on vacation, not as a humblebrag, but because I love sharing travel recommendations and I love [27:25] sharing about places that I've been so that other people can go to them. Like it's a core desire of my life for people to experience interesting, fun, cool places around the world. But it's really hard to do that for it not to feel like a humble brag. Like I was at this cool hotel and then I was at this cool house and then I was, you know, here's a thread of all places. Right. I think you'd have to be really explicit about that and get in front of that. [27:49] and say, [27:50] Thank you. [27:51] This is not a humble brag. I am... [27:54] a sharer by nature. And I want you to experience the joy that I've experienced. It's actually generous. It's a gift. It's a gift. Okay. You got any drafts? You got any Twitter thoughts? I don't, but I do want to just make a comment about Instagram in that I've been living an Instagram-free life for [28:10] probably about a year and [28:12] probably about a year now. And it was by my own hand. It wasn't big daddy's up that took my Instagram account away. Like is what happened to you? I deleted mine.

[28:23] because I found Instagram to be humorless. [28:29] - Too showy. - Yeah. [28:30] Honestly, I'm [28:32] Too many vacation photos. Totally. [28:35] and [28:36] too much... [28:38] bragging and showing off and not enough [28:41] jokes. And so I deleted it and I've redirected all of my intense social media energy towards [28:49] Twitter and TikTok, which are both have a lot more humor on them and are equally problematic in destroying my brains in different ways. But I do want to say that if anyone... [28:59] feels like, [29:00] annoyed by Instagram. [29:03] I just can say it's, it's, [29:06] Really easy to just delete it. One thing that did come up for me when you were saying you devoted your attention to TikTok and Twitter... [29:13] So when Ben Affleck and Jennifer [29:17] Garner? [29:19] Is that her last name? [29:20] uh, [29:22] Yeah. Jennifer Garner. The one with the cheekbones. [29:25] I don't know. Jennifer Garner. Yeah. Beautiful cheekbones. She's like, uh, [29:31] Yeah. Yes. Okay. Jennifer Garner, when they got divorced, [29:35] She had this very famous interview about how much she loves... [29:40] Ben Affleck and how she will always love him. [29:43] but his love [29:45] is like the sun. And when you feel it on you and feel the warmth of his gaze, [29:52] It's so intense and there's nothing better in the world. But when that leaves, you know it. And that she had felt

[30:00] the gaze of him, the sun gaze of him leave. And that that was so painful. And I think about that all the time. And I think about the intensity in which you love TikTok and Twitter is the gaze of the sun going to those two platforms. [30:15] and I'm like man they must feel it they must feel it it totally is my screen time that is reflected in in my screen time absolutely um [30:25] Yeah, that takes off. [30:27] Really sad. And it checks out. Okay. Bye. Okay. Bye. [30:34] Dina, where are we going to be in September? We are going to be at Permissionless in Austin, Texas. Permissionless too. It's happening. And we're curating the culture track for the conference. So if you're into the stuff we talk about here, you should come and have a good time with us. So email your boss. Yeah. [30:50] Tell them that you need to go and buy your ticket now. They will never be as cheap as they are today. And we also have a promo code in our Discord for Boy Scout members. Come hang in Austin. [31:04] Friends. [31:05] This is where we make an ask. We're in our call to action era. It's CTA times. Rate and review this podcast. Subscribe to our newsletter. And if you're feeling extra generous, [31:17] Send it to one friend. Thank you for listening. We love you. Bye.