Ep. 83: Too Online with Emily Chappell: Tube Girl, Dismant-lol, Tiktok Abstract Expressionism

[00:00] Reporting from the front lines of Gen Z. [00:03] Welcome to Two Online by Boys Club. Hot internet news served fresh. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. [00:16] The Boys Club podcast? No. No. [00:18] Just sports club. [00:19] Welcome to online. Here we are. Here we are. I am excited about this week's episode because we had a guest come on. [00:27] with their internet stories. Yeah, I feel a thousand years old. One hundred thousand years old. [00:35] But honestly, that's the work part of why... [00:41] I'm personally so excited to do this podcast is because I'm really excited to get to a point where we can start to [00:47] Thank you. [00:48] see and understand other people's internet experience, not just our own. So we had our first guest on to that end. We had Emily Chaps. She joins us from an extremely cool creative and marketing agency in the UK called Morning. Loyal listeners will know there's a Morning agency crossover. We had Lydia Pang, who's the founder in the last edition of the zine. She's incredible. [01:18] creative spirit. And anyway, morning is just this deeply online. They have a subversive tone. [01:26] to their own brand identity. And so bringing on someone from their team who was the most deeply online person from their team was such a blast. And what I really liked about this interview and Emily is that she brought a real anthropological lens to it. Like she was really trying to like understand humanity and trends and this generation of the next generation through a

[01:52] what the online movement of the day is. And it was a really smart look at what's happening on TikTok, really. She's taking it seriously. And we love to see that. So we're going to listen to Emily's stories. And you're going to hear some of her internet briefings. And then we have a build on [02:12] our own personal build on some of her stories. Yeah. [02:15] So that's the show. Give it a listen. Hey, Natasha, if someone wants to get into crypto or is looking for a better way to trade, where should they go? Oh, Dina, I'm so glad you asked. The place to be is Kraken. It's more than a crypto platform. Kraken is your bridge to the new world of finance. A simple, gorgeous place to trade with a redesigned trading interface that's so easy to use. From degen to day trader, first timer to full timer, make your trades in just a few clicks. [02:45] Sign up in just a few minutes and you can even get started with as little as $10. We love you, Kraken. [02:51] Okay, here we are. Another edition of Two Online. This time we have a special guest with us. [02:59] to talk about her algorithmic internet [03:03] stories. Emily Chaps. Emily is a digital creative lead at an extremely cool agency called Morning based in the UK. Welcome to the show, Emily. Hi, thank you for having me. We're so excited to have you. We have yet to have a guest on 2Online, but... [03:18] Hopefully this will be the first of many because we all get in our own little corners of the internet and it's a joy to learn about others. So I'm so excited to hear about yours. Also, morning is so cool.

[03:32] And you guys are so online that I have a lot of faith in your stories. Painfully online. It hurts, but it's great. Or it's like, if you're going to do the much scrolling, you might as well think about it. I'm like a self-proclaimed TikTok anthropologist, because otherwise I'm just, you know, a chronic scroller if I'm not trying to be anthropological about it. So that's the vibe. Emily, you're then our perfect guest. So let's jump in. What's the first story that you want to bring to the table here? [03:58] I'll bring it up because being a London girl, I feel like it's only appropriate that I talk about Tube girl who has gone viral. [04:05] the past two weeks or so. So Tube Girl, for those listening and who do not know, is basically this cute English girl who goes into the UK public, well, the London public transport, we call the Tube, [04:16] And there's these little windows in between each carriages and they blast wind like nobody's business like you're like, [04:21] fighting him off. - Gross. Super gross. - It's kind of gross, yeah. It's kind of like tunnel air, like it's not great. But she's embracing it. She does these little cute dances [04:32] and she basically uses this tube wind to blow her hair back, Beyonce concert type B, and it's all flowing. And then she gets her camera and she films herself at all these different angles, [04:40] in place of this song, this song, I forgot the name, but it's completely viral. [04:44] but it's just the shamelessness in which he creates his content in front of everyone in the tube. So these are like full tubes. [04:50] - Yeah, people are in there. Have my friends since sent me videos on, you know, now empty tubes, them doing Tube Girl. I'm like, that's not Tube Girl energy. That is fraudulent behavior, but I know what you mean. I want the content too, but. - Natasha, have you seen the Tube Girl video? - I've not.

[05:05] I've not seen it. Oh my gosh. Part of it is also, this is just on a production, on a technical level. She films with the camera backwards. So she's not doing like selfie mode. Okay. So she's not watching herself. She's not watching herself and her arm is fully extended and like out in different crazy angles. There's no way to conceal that she's blatantly filming herself. And she's not, she's not using like a tripod. She's using her hand. It's all just all over the place, everywhere. Limbs are left, right, center. And yeah, just there's a, there's a real freedom in [05:35] to capture this content. - Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this kind of erosion of shame and capture. Production is shameless now. Like there's no like hiding the camera. It's part of the view. And the vim in which she captured has bestowed this energy to the viewer as well, being like, "Damn, this girl is just out here filming." [05:52] I can just out here film. So everyone's just like filming like her or they're witnessing her do it. Everyone's like, oh my God, it's all tube girl to get today. And she's almost becoming this [06:00] London icon. You know in New York they have the naked cowboy. Like she's like the naked cowboy of the day. Like she's tube girl. You kind of want to see her knocking about. You're like damn I saw tube girl today. You're kind of like gassed about it. Is there now like a trend of people taking videos of her? [06:16] doing it? Yeah, that's it. It's like so meta. So it's not even like her posting is encouraging more people to create like her, but then people like seeing her create or filming her create. So it's become this meta layered inspirational piece of content with me. Man, it's so interesting because there has been and maybe it's because she's super cute and shameless and doesn't give a fuck, but you walk down.

[06:37] any street in Soho in New York and there's probably you're going to run into 10 people with the tripod taking some sort of selfie or capturing some content on the street. And I would say the vibe around those people that you see [06:52] on the streets of Soho is not friendly. Like you're like, this is kind of cringy and lame. And you kind of walk around them. And I don't know, maybe if people are like super friendly, it's a different vibe. But the energy generally around those types of people, Natasha, tell me if I'm [07:07] This is kind of silly. But it seems like [07:12] She's doing exactly the same thing, but somehow has captured the... [07:17] hearts and minds of a nation. And I wonder what the difference is. Why do we like look down on the people at Soho and think they're super cringy and lame? And why are we celebrating her? Okay, I want to take a guess, even though I've never seen this woman's content. [07:30] I think there's a few things. One, there's something about her, the consistency of her being on the tube is that in my mind, she's like on her way somewhere. She's commuting. What's annoying about the Soho person is they're like a tourist, someone who's coming to that neighborhood to like pillage for content. And that's like really annoying. And people are like in their daily lives, like doing their commute. And they're like, this is annoying. And then I

[08:00] annoy me the least are actually people who are just like fucking shameless about it and they're like tripod up please don't walk I'm shooting content and I'm like you know what I'm like [08:10] you're doing your thing and I have to respect that but people who are like oh like embarrassed you're like oh now I'm embarrassed now we're all embarrassed and like we've ruined the block for everybody I was just in this aura of embarrassment like oh god why do I exist but I don't know I'm curious what you think Emily no but that's no that's true I do think who gets to be the big stars online and it's [08:31] It is the young, cute girl. So she's a young, cute girl who's allowed to be kind of shameless. If a fifth-year-old dude did that same thing, would it have gone as viral? Like, who knows? Was it, like, the vim in which he did it? But... [08:42] It is. Yeah, I think it is interesting who gets to basically publicly make content and who doesn't. Yeah. Natasha, I think you'd know about her being on her way to somewhere else and it being sort of a side effect of the life that she's already living versus a. [08:57] destination and an end goal i think that that's a really important distinction and i think it makes us like her more and the soho people less and i think that's a that's a [09:07] Good note. It reminds me of... [09:10] This... [09:11] content I'm getting fed right now that I watched one video and now I'm fully immersed in this dude's life. But it's this 25 year old guy who lives in DC. [09:20] And he has like over a hundred thousand followers. Now he makes these daily videos of his life that are so depressing. What I can't figure out is if he's in on the joke or not. If he knows that this is kind of funny and the reason why people follow him is because it's so basic and kind of

[09:37] not aspirational at all. He's like, got my subway sandwich, fueling up. Like he's a consultant and he's very genuine and it doesn't seem like he's performing. Are people like roasting him in the comments? No, it's like pretty, people are like, this is wholesome. It's like really, really wholesome. But like you watch it and you're like, this is so fucking depressing. He's like, went on a date and he's like going to like mini golf. He's living a totally normal life. And then he's like, worked late tonight, like got a walk in. And then he's like getting to bed early. And why people [10:07] He was a cute 24-year-old girl consultant who was super skinny and had great hair. And like, she's permitted to make that content. But he's an average looking 25-year-old dude making internet it girl content around his very basic life. And there's something like, [10:23] So... [10:24] You just want to consume it. You can't look away because it feels subversive in the same way that you're talking about [10:31] How? Like, who's permitted and who's not? Anyway, it's really funny. I'll have to send... I mean, I don't know that it's funny, and I don't know if it's... I don't know if the whole internet is making fun of him, and I haven't been able to parse that out, but... [10:41] I think it falls in the same conversation of like, who's permitted to be famous online and who's permitted to be shameless about the content that they're creating. [10:49] And... [10:51] when you like break that, something really interesting happens and then people have a desire to consume it. Yeah.

[11:03] Let's do the next story. Yes, so it's something that I've been thinking about, I would say, for like a year or so. But I would say it's something that's matured from the kind of anti-capitalist sentiment that's online and thriving amongst Gen Z. I just see a lot of dismantling systems through just like [11:16] lols and like coded chaos so I call it dismantle so it's like dismantle but like lol at the end um I'm just observing just everyone kind of going crazy doing chaos stuff undermining governments and then being like here's the meme for it as well so yeah I think I would start with just the idea of anti-capitalist on TikTok there's like 200 million views just on that hashtag alone and that kind of came I would say in the wake of like woke and like looking at society and all the [11:46] anti-capitalism or just an awareness of what capitalism is amongst youth is actually just an insane phenomenon. [11:52] And then now it's matured into this theory of dismantle law, which I say is basically how fundamental issues, social constructs and systems are being laughed at. [12:01] and taken down through humour as it kind of like undermines or subverts them. [12:05] And so I think what we're going to see is a lot of anti-establishment acts done just to reveal how... [12:09] stupid and silly things are, how irrational the world is, like shoplifting, like people are doing that for fun and for their mental health. [12:17] And then all of this activity is being paired with the idea of cryptic comms, I would say. And if you know, you know, themes or like dark memes and like deep fried memes and like layers of irony that are like so beyond anyone over 25. And they're going to be like, what are these kids even saying? But the kids know. Can I just stop you there and dig into a couple of things that you're talking about? Yeah. OK, so just to sort of repeat back what I'm hearing from you is that there's.

[12:40] this movement where Gen Z, for lack of a better framing, are thinking and talking about these [12:47] big [12:48] systemic [12:49] issues and themes but they're doing it in a way that has a humorous element and kind of a dark humor yeah and that this is a framing that people are using to talk about these themes these like kind of very heavy themes online when i see this type of stuff what comes up for me is more that there's like this apathy i'm curious if you think that as well or if you think it's just like that's the [13:11] way to have this type of conversation with Gen Z. [13:14] Yeah, I think that actually, like, good people want good for the world, but I think it's just this is the way they're kind of, like, dealing with it because it is, like, kind of bleak out there. So, like, humour does that two activities of soothing the blow of life and then also subverting, like, previous systems. And I think it is that idea of if you can, like... [13:31] kind of make humour from it, it kind of makes it a silly thing. I guess we saw that big era of quiet quitting, I would say, was kind of in there. And doing the least is the most impressive thing to do at work, like getting a big salary and then being like, [13:44] "Lol, I literally just moved my mouse around, and I'm still getting paid for this." So that's the flex, is to basically do as little as possible [13:52] get as much money as possible. So then your free time, you can go on holidays and like do actually what you love. The meme that comes up for me that I've seen around this, [13:59] is two people in conversation and one person's like, what's your dream job? [14:04] And the other person is, I don't dream of work. [14:07] And it's sort of like a subversive, funny way of...

[14:10] dismantling capitalism. Do you have any like personal feelings around this? Yeah. Because I feel like I have like a scratchy aversion to this type of rhetoric, especially around work, because... [14:25] I'm like really ambitious and I love other ambitious people. And yeah, [14:30] there's something about it that doesn't resonate with me. [14:34] And I'm curious. [14:36] what comes up for you when there's this sort of sentiment around quite quitting or doing the least all of those themes i would say last year there was a whole like spew of media where it's like uh the girl boss is dead yeah and i was like no she's not i'm here it's just different now it's rebranded where it's basically instead of it being girl boss through your work or like your industry it's more through your side projects and your passions and your [14:57] many brands you've made and things like that. So I think it's existing, it just has a new [15:01] has a new dress on, I think. And yeah, I would say like [15:05] I embarrassingly, like innately a girl boss. And I'm literally like, this is like not cool anymore. And I wish I could like that not be part of me. And the 15 year olds are like, you're a big loser. But I'm like, that's just how I am. But I am just ambitious and that just lives in, [15:18] in different ways now. So I think it's happening. It's just like, it's not a flex in industry anymore. It's a flex in your like side projects. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. You're not doing it for the man. You're doing it for yourself. Yes. The term the man is so helpful when I talk about this a lot, because it's just about, as well as it's kind of like quiet quitting and like low level crime, I see this meme of shoplifting. [15:37] your favorite pasta, you deserve it kind of sentiment. But also like this idea of, yes, like honestly, but like, dude, like these big capitalist companies are like not going to see it. They're like, oh no, like that penne pasta went walkies. Like they're not going to care. They're not going to notice. And then also this idea of getting a lot of either like economic power, influencer power to then dismantle. So I do see like Elon Musk as the pioneer slash pinnacle of it. He owns Twitter and now he's trolling it. And he like exists in this kind of troll narrative. And I think,

[16:06] is very aspirational. I often screenshot his, well, once tweets about exes, I don't know what he calls it at the moment, but he did one, like he reposted one thing where it's like falling in love hits different when you know [16:15] they're a paid actor sent by the CIA to distract you from dedicating your life to dismantling the government. So it's like he's literally saying it himself and he's saying like, you need to become a bajillionaire and then like let's sort some stuff out. He's leading that narrative, I think. [16:29] I also think to the time when Kanye West was exiting Adidas and he... [16:33] got Instagram and literally outed the whole C-suite. Like that's insane. So dismantle all to sum it up would be burn it down energy with a humorous foundation and some bursts of undertone running throughout. Honestly, it's very crypto. It's very similar to the sort of crypto community and the crypto approach to the world. I don't know if you've seen like algo speak resisting the algorithm by using new words in order to like operate on TikTok. So do you know they say like segs instead of sex [17:03] the word sex is banned on TikTok. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [17:06] So there's other words, and these are a few of my favorites. I thought this might be fun for you guys. Or we can try and guess them. OK, do you know what the Cheeto means on TikTok? [17:15] The Cheeto? The Cheeto. So like, I know it's like American. Also, I wonder how your accent, because the way you said Adidas was so sweet. I was like, oh my God, the cutest. Okay, Cheetos. [17:31] I don't know, like cheater? Dina, any guesses? Um, Donald Trump.

[17:37] Correct. Oh! Yeah, he's like the Cheeto, because he's like the orange figure in the world. Wow, that was a divine inspiration. It's just crazy that, and then the other one that was a favorite is during the pandemic, that world was banned because they couldn't have slander or like kind of false information being circulated, so... [17:53] Gen Z called it the Backstreet Boys reunion party. Like why that as a like trade for the word pandemic is like hilarious. Oh, they were calling the pandemic the Backstreet Boys reunion party. So their content was then downgraded. I know it's hilarious. And I'm like, who decided this? Oh, my gosh. That is hilarious. Wait, the word pandemic was banned on TikTok? Yeah. [18:17] I think it would kind of flag your content and it wouldn't get as well distributed. Okay, okay, okay. So... The algorithm didn't like it. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's this other factor of, like, you know, the crypto boys, like, burn it down. But they're also... We have to change the language so we can get through this. And that's why they do, like... [18:31] deep frying memes, so algorithms can't see you, or has like this extra layer of context, and again it's this whole idea of like being in plain sight of the man and the man being like, [18:40] I can't even, like, the layers of irony, the way you're delivering this, like, the new phrasing, like, how do you keep up? And it's just, like, infinite. There's also something really amazing about it when you think about [18:50] its relationship, [18:51] to the tech. And the reason why the culture around TikTok or Gen Z around TikTok has had to develop the way that it talks about things is because it's trying to work its way around a machine, basically, that's rating its content and they're trying to break that content. And so watching that relationship is so interesting. And I think that's only going to continue as more and more of some of the things that we do are automated. And then it's a really fun version of the future

[19:21] that is required if you want to sort of break through the noise with subverting the medium that you're using, which is so like the Backstreet Boys thing is a perfect example of that. It's so good. Every platform is a new state. Everyone has their own community guidelines, basically their legislation. They have all their cultural nuances. What flies on Instagram does not fly on TikTok. And it's just going to be interesting how they all kind of like... [19:44] evolve and stuff. Totally. Totally. Wow. I love it. It's crazy. I love it. Emily, thank you so much for coming on and spilling on what's happening on the internet. What's going on with the kids? I'm trying. I'm trying to keep up. There's quite a lot out there. But yeah, thank you for having me. It's been like so fun. Kraken is a crypto OG. They have more than 10 million clients around the world that trust them with their crypto needs. They're one of the largest crypto platforms out [20:14] your funds and your privacy are safe for the keeping. And if you need help along the way, as we all do sometimes, Kraken's award-winning client support team is available 24-7 every day of the year. This is a true story. I've actually hit them up a few times with very dumb questions about our account and they were so nice and so patient. It just takes a few minutes to get started today at kraken.com backslash boys club. [20:37] Okay, so after Emily's... [20:41] Recording. [20:42] I then... [20:43] got on the internet myself. And I was like, I want to [20:48] See what's happening. Understand all of the stories that she was telling us and like dig into it a little bit. So I'm on TikTok. I'm digging in. I'm checking out Tube Girl. And love TikTok.

[21:01] obsessed with this woman and her energy and [21:07] and vivacious spirit that comes through in these TikToks. And... [21:13] Then I'm scrolling and... [21:16] I hit my own internet story around tube girl. [21:20] So what I see is I'm scrolling and I see this woman who's got the green screen and behind her, she has the video of tube girl playing. [21:27] A primo tube girl. [21:28] experience and the music that the two girls listening to playing. And she says, if you understand this, then you understand this. [21:37] And on the second this, it's an image of a Helen Frankenthal painting, who is an American abstract expressionist painter. She painted in like the 50s and up to the 80s. And it's like a classic abstract expressionist painting. And so this woman goes on to analyze Tube Girl and how it relates to... [22:00] abstract expressionism and specifically female abstract expressionism in the 1950s and 60s and 70s. Wow. And it is so good. And she's like, I know, it's so great. And so this woman, her name is Sema R. And she... [22:16] basically breaks down different pop culture moments, like pulls in pop culture or internet trends or stuff that's happening on TikTok and pulls it into teaching around other things. [22:28] cultural, historical, art history moments throughout time. And she's so good. And so her TikTok handle is artlust. And she's got about 200,000 followers, 15.1 million likes across her videos.

[22:43] and some other like catchy starters that she has at the beginning of her videos is [22:48] Is couch guy still with his girlfriend? And what does it say about collective memory? That's one. Another one. Are Taylor Swift and Jake Gyllenhaal related? Are they descendants of Anne Boleyn? Anne Boleyn was like the queen of England in the 1500s or something. And so like, she's really, really good. And so coming back to Tube Girl, what she says is if you enjoy this video, you enjoy like, [23:11] the movement of it, this woman like living her life out loud. And she brings it back to all these different female abstract expressionist paintings from Lee Krosner, who was [23:21] Jackson Pollock's wife to Joan Mitchell, like, and she starts to draw sort of these... [23:26] different lines from how tube girl is loud and expressive and overtly living in a way that's offensive to some people but inspiring to most people and she talks about how like color and movement and abstract painting is basically the same thing it's about like enjoyment it's so good that's so good and the art is abstract art [23:51] Yeah, it's all abstract expressionist paintings. So like, wow, think, you know, Joan Mitchell is known for like really strong lines and force and like really she's one of my favorite painters and all of these women have very. [24:04] expressive, very abstract work. And I love that she's like tube girl is 2023 Helen Frankenthal. I love that. I love that so much. What a wonderful internet story. Thank you so much. So I'll link her. She does a lot of great teaching.

[24:21] A lot of great teaching happening. [24:24] Okay, that's it.